Axis bombers capable of delivering atomic bombs?

[TheSunNeverSets]

So lets say that Germany or Japan, in some way or form, magically figure out how to produce an atomic bomb around 1944. And lets say that the German targets would be London and Moscow and the Japanese targets would be a Chinese target (don't have much knowledge of Chinese geography to figure out a suitable target) and possibly San Francisco. Ignoring the Allies air supremacy, would they have any bombers that would be able to even carry a bomb? I have heard about the Amerika Bomber project and its Japanese counterpart, and that created Ju 390 and the Me 264. Besides that, what? Would it be possible for a Fw 200, He 177, or some variant of a Do 217 to be easily modified to carry one? What about the Ki-67, the G5N, or the G8N? I also wanted to somehow include Italian bombers in this question but I don't know enough about their heavy bombers to even give any possible suggestions (only thing I could find about Italian heavy bombers is the P.108).

Also, this is my first post to this forum. I really couldn't find much on Google (or my searching skills just suck) so I posted here. This is the right board to post in, right? I know that this question really dives deep into ASB territory, but I have seen other threads that asks more crazy questions in this board before.

 

[DaveBC]

I don't know if it's ASB so much as a plausible engineering question.

On the American side, the Silverplate bombers already had to be modified for the nuclear weapons role. I assume the Germans would have dealt with this problem if they actually had a weapon to deliver.

 

[Gudestein]

He277 or a derivative would be Best. Had the ceiling to get there. Strip down all the guns and it might carry it. Wonder what the bomb Bay could carry though

 

[marathag]

You need more than ceiling, you need speed, and be able to do a hard turn at that speed and altitude.
You have 44 seconds to get away from the blast area after the drop, 8 miles away from Ground Zero. Drop altitude of a B-29 gave you just under 6 miles up

 

[pdf27]

You need more than ceiling, you need speed, and be able to do a hard turn at that speed and altitude.
You have 44 seconds to get away from the blast area after the drop, 8 miles away from Ground Zero. Drop altitude of a B-29 gave you just under 6 miles up

Not exactly - the US bombs were slightly retarded (the tail fins were described as a "California Parachute") to give the B-29 enough time to escape. A bigger parachute is possible, but that makes interception by AA fire on the way down (considered a serious risk with the US bombs) more of a risk and degrades accuracy.

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Not exactly - the US bombs were slightly retarded (the tail fins were described as a "California Parachute") to give the B-29 enough time to escape. A bigger parachute is possible, but that makes interception by AA fire on the way down (considered a serious risk with the US bombs) more of a risk and degrades accuracy.

Do you need to be that accurate on a bomb designed to wipe out a city?

Especially given the “ethics” of the Nazis or the Japanese when selecting targets.

 

[SsgtC]

Do you need to be that accurate on a bomb designed to wipe out a city?

Especially given the “ethics” of the Nazis or the Japanese when selecting targets.

Surprisingly, yes. Look at the difference in damage between Hiroshima and Nagasaki. IIRC, the Hiroshima bomb was pretty much (or damn close to) on target. The bomb dropped on Nagasaki was not. Due to not being on target, a large portion of the city was spared due to the blast being deflected by hills in the area

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Surprisingly, yes. Look at the difference in damage between Hiroshima and Nagasaki. IIRC, the Hiroshima bomb was pretty much (or damn close to) on target. The bomb dropped on Nagasaki was not. Due to not being on target, a large portion of the city was spared due to the blast being deflected by hills in the area

And? The bomb landing and detonating made the point.

 

[SsgtC]

And? The bomb landing and detonating made the point.

Uh, your post specifically asked if you needed to be accurate with a bomb designed to wipe out a city. Not if the pyschological effects would be the same. And the answer is yes. You still need to be accurate with City buster nukes. Otherwise, things like hills (like at Nagasaki) will deflect the blast and large portions of the city will be spared

 

[Deleted member 94680]

Uh, your post specifically asked if you needed to be accurate with a bomb designed to wipe out a city. Not if the pyschological effects would be the same. And the answer is yes. You still need to be accurate with City buster nukes. Otherwise, things like hills (like at Nagasaki) will deflect the blast and large portions of the city will be spared

Fair enough.


Maybe my use of the term “wipe out” was a error.

I was merely implying with a blast area that large and the use of the bomb itself being the object, as opposed to hitting a specific target, a method of delivery impinging on accuracy might not be enough to prevent a mission going ahead.

After all, how many people today know that the attack on Nagasaki wasn’t as accurate as it could have been?

 

[riggerrob]

German bombers definitely had the range to A-bomb London in early 1944 and maybe Moscow but they lacked the range to hit the USA.

Sure Nazi engineers sketched plenty of "Amerika Bombers" even several jet-powered flying wings, but jets sucked far too much fuel to cross an ocean in 1944. A few of the largest German planes might have crossed the Atlantic, but they would only be able to deliver a small bomb. Into the 1950s, radial engines were still the most efficient way to cross oceans.

Has anyone considered sailing a U-boat into New York harbour? They could lay their bomb on the bottom and disappear before it explodes. The effect would be similar to the Halifax Explosion: briefly emptying the harbour and flattening all wooden buildings within sight of the blast.

 

[marathag]

Not exactly - the US bombs were slightly retarded (the tail fins were described as a "California Parachute") to give the B-29 enough time to escape. A bigger parachute is possible, but that makes interception by AA fire on the way down (considered a serious risk with the US bombs) more of a risk and degrades accuracy.

They were drag plates, and you still have that OTL 44 seconds. Without the plates, would be even less
It took years of testing in the '50s for actual drag chutes to work reliably.
That's why they developed toss bombing, as even the improved yield in the Mk3 and Mk4 made escape more difficult

 

[edgeworthy]

German bombers definitely had the range to A-bomb London in early 1944 and maybe Moscow but they lacked the range to hit the USA.

Sure Nazi engineers sketched plenty of "Amerika Bombers" even several jet-powered flying wings, but jets sucked far too much fuel to cross an ocean in 1944. A few of the largest German planes might have crossed the Atlantic, but they would only be able to deliver a small bomb. Into the 1950s, radial engines were still the most efficient way to cross oceans.

Has anyone considered sailing a U-boat into New York harbour? They could lay their bomb on the bottom and disappear before it explodes. The effect would be similar to the Halifax Explosion: briefly emptying the harbour and flattening all wooden buildings within sight of the blast.

There were the prototypes for the Ju 390 and Me 264 available, at most 5 aircraft.

And a Mistel built around a FW 200/ Ju 290/ He 177 might be a possibility. Although very likely a one way trip, in theory the pilot might be able to fly his fighter upper component far enough for a U-Boat rendezvous, but the odds would be hideous. And a FW 190 would be able to clear the blast without issue.
(Would it be possible to use a twin engined upper component with the range to return to a German held airfield?)

 

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Given that the US only had the B-29 big enough, that the Brits would have had to scramble to get an adequate machine, and that the German bomber force was mostly 2-engine mediums, with few heavies at all, I'd say the likelihood of the Nazis being able to carry a first gen Abomb to target is miniscule, even if they were handed one for free.

 

[sloreck]

While the various German heavy designs (mostly) could carry the 10,000 lbs of a "little boy", and certainly from Germany to the UK would not have been a problem range wise, they would have need "silverplating". Could one of these been able to get far enough away to avoid being caught in the blast, hard to say. Certainly there were no designs even close to being built that could take such a bomb to the USA and back. None of the designs got beyond one or two prototypes and certainly none were ready for combat use by the end of the war.None of the twin engine bombers, nor any sort of "mistel" could have carried such a device. The only way the Nazis could have gotten a bomb to the USA in 1944/45 was a U-boat on a suicide mission, hoping it could penetrate in to Boston, New York or another major harbor and set off the device.

 

[BlondieBC]

Surprisingly, yes. Look at the difference in damage between Hiroshima and Nagasaki. IIRC, the Hiroshima bomb was pretty much (or damn close to) on target. The bomb dropped on Nagasaki was not. Due to not being on target, a large portion of the city was spared due to the blast being deflected by hills in the area

Seems like the Hiroshima blast was withing 200 feet of the aim point.

 

[Theoretical_TJ]

I think a suicide U-boat or plane is not out of the question, especially (for a plane) if you loaded the plane up with obscene amounts of fuel so it could fly very low on its long one-way journey.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Assuming the He-177B has the same maximum capacity as the He-177A, it can do it. The Japanese's only true heavy bomber, the G8N, unfortunately can't, not without modifying the plane. Little Boy weighed ~4400 kg, the G8N can only carry a maximum of 4000 kg.

 

[Mad Bad Rabbit]

Duh, zeppelins. Build the frame out of bamboo and paint the envelope blue for stealth; pick a suicide crew; and hope for favorable winds near the target.

 

[DerWonderWaffles]

They never had any planes available for dropping and going back.

The only plausible way of delivering it would be a modified He 177, where the bomb is built into the plane, shutting the bomb bays. Finding a suicide pilot isn't hard, just train a SS man and he'll do the job.

Besides doing a one way suicide trip, it won't work.