Axis Australia - the Land Down Under in the Third Reich's pockets...

I was just trying to put the time he would have arrived there in mind as some Jews may have been transported there for crimes real or imaginary. What generation Australian was he? And dont answer if it is too off topic but how is that iman who went around saying he was the real Australian and all the whites were transported criminals doing?

Some Jews were transported but a lower proportion than there were in the UK population.

He was 1st Generation Australian. His parents were emigres. I am sure someone has already answered that.

The ex-self-styled Grand-Mufti Hillali is like many Imams and Mullahs, rather poorly educated. He's good for a head line but that is about all. He was deposed as "Grand Mufti" what, five years ago? Few Muslims seem to pay very much attention to his views.
 
I think the mistake people are making here is making this about the Germans, we should be thinking of the Japanese and the British.

Suppose with a POD during WWI you get a schism between the UK and australia(worse off galipoli or something) that the Aussies blame the British for and the British blame the Aussies for. This sets the seed for an independence movement in the interwar period, maybe have the depression exascerbate the problem and so by the time war breaks out the political party that supports independence be in power. So they decide to throw their lot in with the Japanese.

Probably still pretty thin, but that's the best I can think of, since the only way I figure you get the Australians to actually side with the axis is not to have them cozy up to the Germans or Japanese, but to dislike the British enough. Merely being racist isn't enough, any Australian government has got to see the inherent risks in joining the Axis, so merely having similar opinions on something(race for instance) is not going to be enough, they actually need to gain something from the partnership.

The fear of the "Yellow Peril" (Asians in general, the Chinese in particular and failing them, the Japanese as a good substitute) was a general fear amongst the white settlers in Australia. Basically they were afraid that someone (and the Asian masses were a good candidate in their mind) would do unto them what they had done unto the Aborigines - disinherit them by force of numbers from ownership of the Australian continent.

There is absolutely no way that the white colonial government would ever ally itself with the Japanese. It just couldn't happen. The White Australia policy was aimed squarely at excluding Asian immigrants to Australia (but swept up any other "non-Whites" who got snared in its invidious web).
 
Here's one. Take away their Mandates. Even better, have the British trade New Guinea with the Dutch so they can give Dutch Guiana and German Samoa to America.

Never going to happen. Considering how hard Billy Hughes fought for the Type III League Mandate at Versailles, Papua (initially) and New Guinea (later) were very much seen as integral to the defence of Australia in the region. It was aimed more at preventing the expansion of German interests in the region, BTW, rather than the Japanese.
 
Most Australians seem to think Japan would have exterminated us.

There is often quite a large gap between myth and reality. I'd suggest you read A.T.Ross's "Armed and Ready: The Industrial development and defence of Australia, 1900-1945" to learn the realities of how well Australia was prepared to meet the Japanese challenge.

I just think Australia would have had Menzies in power and him starting to cozy up to Hitler if it got that bad. Not that it stops us buying Japanese cars any...

As I've pointed out, Menzies considered himself "British to his bootstraps" and declared so in Parliament. He was willing to commit his nation to war purely on the say-so of the UK's PM. In 1940 he travelled to the UK where he seriously toyed with the idea of actually attempting to become the UK's PM. While he may have had some sympathy for the more palatable of Hitler's ideas, he wasn't about to jump into bed with him, no matter what.
 
Never going to happen. Considering how hard Billy Hughes fought for the Type III League Mandate at Versailles, Papua (initially) and New Guinea (later) were very much seen as integral to the defence of Australia in the region. It was aimed more at preventing the expansion of German interests in the region, BTW, rather than the Japanese.

We were trying to find a way to push them into the Nazi sphere. Wouldnt that anger work?
 
I think the only way to do it would be to get Britain on the side of the Axis somehow. It's too early in our history to think about a split from Britain.

By the way, the appointment of Governor-General Isaac Isaacs did actually cause a bit of a shitstorm at the time (his being Australian-born and Jewish to boot did have quite a few people outraged -- it was the Labor government under James Scullin who appointed him, and I doubt the Nationalists or United Australia Party would have done it). But I don't think anti-Semitism in Australia has ever been a really huge thing.
 
We were trying to find a way to push them into the Nazi sphere. Wouldnt that anger work?

No. You'd need to turn loyality to the UK down 1,000,000% and the anger up 1,000,000% to get the effect you're after. Just not going to happen. As much as some Australians resented the UK's high-handedness they accepted the "Mother Country's" ways.
 
I think the only way to do it would be to get Britain on the side of the Axis somehow. It's too early in our history to think about a split from Britain.

By the way, the appointment of Governor-General Isaac Isaacs did actually cause a bit of a shitstorm at the time (his being Australian-born and Jewish to boot did have quite a few people outraged -- it was the Labor government under James Scullin who appointed him, and I doubt the Nationalists or United Australia Party would have done it). But I don't think anti-Semitism in Australia has ever been a really huge thing.

I agree. If anything anti-Semitism has grown over the last 50 years from something which was quite low-lying to something more prominent, primarily because of the growing influence of American evangelical church movements downunder.
 
I agree. If anything anti-Semitism has grown over the last 50 years from something which was quite low-lying to something more prominent, primarily because of the growing influence of American evangelical church movements downunder.

Not to mention the media often taking a pro-Palestinian view or at least being ambiguous enough to suggest a pro-Palestine view. And the Muslim migrants (admittely few but are a reasonably vocal minority). And that whole scandal of copied Australian passports in Mossad hands.

But that is a whole different issue, so, let's be wisely moving on...

Oops...necropost...
 
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You dont think that Australia might have allied itself with Japan if they promised to save the continent from being occupied by MacArthur??:p:D:p
 
If Australia joined the Axis the British would invade and capture strategic points like Darwin without much trouble, and blockade the rest of the country. We`d soon turn back.
 
If Australia joined the Axis the British would invade and capture strategic points like Darwin without much trouble, and blockade the rest of the country. We`d soon turn back.

I think it more likely that in the very unlikely event of Australia actively opposing the UK prior or up to WW2 era then we would see a strong probability of a coup or loyalist movement rising
 
Ironically enough the 'best' way to Oz to join the Axis is to have a Communist government align with Russia. But even that would just prompt the New Guard to rise up and they were completely loyal to GB.

Although, the idea of an armed mob singing Rule Britannia and marching on the government is all sorts of awesome:D.
 
In 1917, despite attempts to crush them, the IWW moved from a civil rights campaign within democracy; to a campaign of sabot-age.

Sabot-age has a long history within the labour movement, and the IWW was at the time accused of industrial arson. In addition, the Commonwealth through NSW and Victorian special police believed the IWW was capable of further actions (and from limited readings of the archives, I believe that some IWW members maintained independent capacities for this kind of action).

With the 1917 arson campaign, the Australian government entered a period of gross anti-Labour and anti-Labour hysteria. While the complexion of pro-Arbitration unions meant that there was a limited capacity for this kind of state barbarity to provoke a radical social-democratic response; the decision of the IWW to go underground legitimised militant action.

With the delay of returned servicemen in 1919, and the continuance of anti-labour war acts, the foreign and domestic returned service riots caused considerable consternation in both the nationalist and imperialist bourgeoisie. The solution was obvious: organisation of paramilitaries under sensible control for the continuance of governance. Sir John Monash was tasked with this action.

As the 1920 depression bit hard, the already radical IWW co-opted more and more of the radical wing of the labour movement, pre-empting the formation of a pro-Bolshevik communist party (for the moment). The continued bombing campaign saw a concerted effort to free the Sydney prisoners, that succeeded in a limited way in a small unit assault on a magistrates court, during a subsidiary hearing.

The shit hits the fan, and by 1926 Monash has been given a Vice-Regal position. Speaking of the shit, the White Armies had bludgeoned, cudgelled and forced the drinking of meths and turps amongst trade unionists. The effect of this was more pronounced in rural areas, leading to a bizarre radicalisation of the Australian Workers Union due to repression. The AWU continues to claim by 1926 that it is the embodiment of the One Big Union, unlike the underground and now Russia-friendly illegal IWW. Areas that did not see gross depredations included forestry, the docks and the coal mines. This would change in 1929.

The attempts to impose massive arbitrated restrictions against forestry, docks and mines failed abysmally. The government splintered as waves of state police were shot off occupied worksites. (The hysteria of IWW led "last ditch" defence efforts should be considered in the light of the Austrian social-democrats; or the decision of 4 November by the young workers of Budapest). With police failing, and the federal government unable to command a majority of the house, certain gentlemen approached Monash to form a government by executive council in order to maintain the constitution of Australia, the true constitution of the founders. Monash's advanced networks of paramilitary mobilised, and with some chaos managed to achieve order.

And there you've got a fascist government in Australia prior to 1931. The fascism is going to be a mixture of British Racialism in Australian Nationalism; and British Racialism in British Imperialism.

There's no way such a fascist government would support the Axis. Australian racial myths have been fundamentally associated with Britishness (to 1942) in the Nationalist bent, and until the late 1960s in the Imperialist bent. The Australian bourgeoisie did organise multiple paramilitaries to beat Labor and labour into a pulp, these were racialist, right wing and dictatorial. At the same time they were not self-consciously "fascist," and merely possessed either all the characteristics of reactionary Torydom, or a kind of progressive-reactionary "new" right politics. This is much more like Horthy's fascism than even Benito's. This is nothing near Franco or Hitler.

yours,
Sam R.
 
I doubt Australia would ever go to war with the UK. Even after 100 years of closer ties to the US and Asia. It isn't just unlikely, it's pretty much impossible.
 
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