Automotive WI - Yamaha also builds Automobiles

[Masked Grizzly]

Both Yamaha and Kawasaki are notable for being the only Japanese motorcycle manufacturers that did not produce cars.

That is not to say both did not explore the idea with Kawasaki developing the Kawasaki KZ360 Kei Car prototype (aborted because dealer network could not be establish - yet could have worked had Kawasaki and Hino Motors not been split from Isuzu), while Yamaha would notably produce the Nissan A550X prototype before going on to work with Toyota on the Toyota 2000GT IOTL.

Intriguingly Yamaha themselves started work on a Kei Car in 1958 before they decided to bow out and instead develop a sportscar rather unusually at the low volume end of the range after the Kei Car segment was soon swamped by rivals.

With that niche in mind, ONO Shun and YASUKAWA Tsutomu set up the Yamaha Technology Institute and in September 1959 went on a grand tour of American and European car manufacturers to seek knowledge and inspiration. They noticed that sports and GT constructors mostly still worked on a one-by-one basis, by hand, rather than the mass production way. At that time, Japan still lacked the huge resources and facilities to mass produce, and YASUKAWA and ONO san thought about the higher power, lower production area of car production for the discerning enthusiast.

On their return to Japan in November, they set up the Yasukawa Institute, aiming at high performance sports cars. Soon the Institute had purchased a MGA twin cam from a US Occupation Forces army officer (as officially unable to buy foreign made vehicles) and a Facel-Vega Facelia, another DOHC powered car. These were tested and dismantled to gain knowledge and understanding. Ironically both of these engines were withdrawn from the market by their manufacturers due to serious reliability problems. Maybe from that, Yamaha created a robust and efficient 1.6Litre DOHC of their own for the Yamaha YX30 prototype.

But a serious slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan made Yamaha cut its costs, and the engine would be shelved and both Yamaha Institutes were broken up. This slump caused Yamaha financial difficulties and this is probably the cause for Nissan and Yamaha being entered into an imposed partnership, by a mutual financing bank in 1962 that led to the Nissan A550X project.


What if however Yamaha not only managed to avoid the slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan, but also decided to return to developing a Kei Car with either a regular car or continuing with carving out its own niche by producing its own production Kei Car analogue of the 1962 Honda S360 sports car prototype for the Japanese domestic market?

Whilst of course still building engines and doing contract work for other car manufacturers' vehicles as in IOTL Yamaha as well as reminiscent of IOTL Lotus Cars with its Lotus Engineering offshoot?

Link

CSP311 development history

I will keep with the Japanese convention of Family name first, thus, KIMURA Kazuo. Also you will see KIMURA san, with san, meaning roughly, Mr. Since we are mainly talking about Japanese people, wh…

csp311.net

 

[Masked Grizzly]

One thing that seems to stand out on the subject of Yamaha's attempts to build its own cars would be how the initial beginnings appear to parallel Honda in some respects, despite the humbler beginnings of the latter compared to the former who appeared with their motorcycle some 6 or so years later yet circumstances would push both companies in different directions IOTL.

Interested to see if the serious slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan during the late-1950s to early-1960s had any impact on Honda, as the latter seemingly being a smaller company compared to Yamaha were hardly deterred from producing what became the Honda T360/T500 Kei Truck and Honda S500 sportscar.

 

[Fuzzy Dunlop]

Both Yamaha and Kawasaki are notable for being the only Japanese motorcycle manufacturers that did not produce cars.

That is not to say both did not explore the idea with Kawasaki developing the Kawasaki KZ360 Kei Car prototype (aborted because dealer network could not be establish - yet could have worked had Kawasaki and Hino Motors not been split from Isuzu), while Yamaha would notably produce the Nissan A550X prototype before going on to work with Toyota on the Toyota 2000GT IOTL.

Intriguingly Yamaha themselves started work on a Kei Car in 1958 before they decided to bow out and instead develop a sportscar rather unusually at the low volume end of the range after the Kei Car segment was soon swamped by rivals.

With that niche in mind, ONO Shun and YASUKAWA Tsutomu set up the Yamaha Technology Institute and in September 1959 went on a grand tour of American and European car manufacturers to seek knowledge and inspiration. They noticed that sports and GT constructors mostly still worked on a one-by-one basis, by hand, rather than the mass production way. At that time, Japan still lacked the huge resources and facilities to mass produce, and YASUKAWA and ONO san thought about the higher power, lower production area of car production for the discerning enthusiast.

On their return to Japan in November, they set up the Yasukawa Institute, aiming at high performance sports cars. Soon the Institute had purchased a MGA twin cam from a US Occupation Forces army officer (as officially unable to buy foreign made vehicles) and a Facel-Vega Facelia, another DOHC powered car. These were tested and dismantled to gain knowledge and understanding. Ironically both of these engines were withdrawn from the market by their manufacturers due to serious reliability problems. Maybe from that, Yamaha created a robust and efficient 1.6Litre DOHC of their own for the Yamaha YX30 prototype.

But a serious slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan made Yamaha cut its costs, and the engine would be shelved and both Yamaha Institutes were broken up. This slump caused Yamaha financial difficulties and this is probably the cause for Nissan and Yamaha being entered into an imposed partnership, by a mutual financing bank in 1962 that led to the Nissan A550X project.


What if however Yamaha not only managed to avoid the slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan, but also decided to return to developing a Kei Car with either a regular car or continuing with carving out its own niche by producing its own production Kei Car analogue of the 1962 Honda S360 sports car prototype for the Japanese domestic market?

Whilst of course still building engines and doing contract work for other car manufacturers' vehicles as in IOTL Yamaha as well as reminiscent of IOTL Lotus Cars with its Lotus Engineering offshoot?

Link

CSP311 development history

I will keep with the Japanese convention of Family name first, thus, KIMURA Kazuo. Also you will see KIMURA san, with san, meaning roughly, Mr. Since we are mainly talking about Japanese people, wh…

csp311.net

My best bet is to go the way of car manufacturers did in South Korea.

License production a selection of European models for around twenty years then like Hyundai develop their own models in the 1980's

You could easily have Yamaha produce a full range of cars by 1990.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

My best bet is to go the way of car manufacturers did in South Korea.

License production a selection of European models for around twenty years then like Hyundai develop their own models in the 1980's

You could easily have Yamaha produce a full range of cars by 1990.

Would say licensed production in the period Yamaha were considering car production IOTL would be too late, even if it would not be a stretch via the DKW RT 125 derived Yamaha YA-1 for them to follow a similar path as Saab and DKW / Auto Union.

OTOH ITTL Yamaha still drawing upon the likes of the MGA Twin-Cam, Facel Vega Facelia and others (even more so if former two were properly developed plus the Harry Mundy designed 4--cam V6 for Facel to enter production) to develop their own Twin-Cam engine for their own larger cars would be something worth retaining.

The lower end of the range is another issue. There would be little point for Yamaha to develop an early-1960s analogue of the two-stroke Suzuki Fronte 800 let alone an equivalent to the air-cooled Honda 1300 since customers would have much higher expectations (what with two-strokes and air-cooling becoming unfashionable), the latter on the basis of Yamaha's first four-stroke engine motorcycle IOTL being the 1969 air-cooled 650cc inline-twin powered Yamaha XS 650.

OTOH Yamaha following Honda with their small 360-800cc Honda DOHC engines would probably not be worthwhile aiming towards in the Kei Car and Japanese National Car segments compared to a slightly cheaper SOHC 2/4-cylinder engine capable of putting out similar power outputs with both a greater displacement range as well as being a lot more usable in a much wider variety of applications compared to the small niche Honda DOHC units.

One possible template would be a SOHC version of the Alfa Romeo Tipo 103 prototype with Yamaha also drawing upon the SOHC 875-998cc + Coventry Climax based Imp engines, yet in a more coventional front-engine rear-wheel drive layout similar to the Daihatsu Compagno (whose engine was originally conceived with a 30 hp 678cc displacement as a prototype yet was capable of growing to 1298cc) to allow for a Honda S rivalling sportscar.

 

[Coiler]

Unless all the dice roll correctly and they turn into a sort of "Japanese BMW" (sporty theme at least on paper, comparably small volume and thus necessary higher margin on individual cars) , I'm just not seeing Yamaha's foray into cars as being anything but a curiosity that ends up being sold off (in some fashion) and them returning to their OTL status.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Unless all the dice roll correctly and they turn into a sort of "Japanese BMW" (sporty theme at least on paper, comparably small volume and thus necessary higher margin on individual cars) , I'm just not seeing Yamaha's foray into cars as being anything but a curiosity that ends up being sold off (in some fashion) and them returning to their OTL status.

It depends on what approach Yamaha takes in ATL. They could have certainly carved out a niche in producing a Kei Sportscar that Honda left opened when they opted not to put the Honda S360 prototype into production (not to mention preceded Mazda in producing an early analogue of the MX-5), they could have also made money from doing contract work on the side like they already did IOTL though now with their own car division like Lotus (who themselves were involved with other carmaker's projects).

Perhaps Yamaha Car's ties with Nissan could instead evolve along similar lines ITTL as Daihatsu's with Toyota IOTL (though with Yamaha possessing a degree of autonomy)? That is also assuming both Yamaha and Nissan were of course under the same Keiretsu (Fuyo Group?) during that period up to the present,

 

[marathag]

Yamaha deals with Austin to get chassis/bodies for the A40, since AMC would want no more Metropolitan after 1961 model year.
Austin's agreement with Nissan to rebadge the A50 wagon for the Japanese market ended in 1959.
Yamaha gets car/pickup/Van that can use their motors, the chassis is mature, no problems there.

 

[Dan1988]

Both Yamaha and Kawasaki are notable for being the only Japanese motorcycle manufacturers that did not produce cars.

That is not to say both did not explore the idea with Kawasaki developing the Kawasaki KZ360 Kei Car prototype (aborted because dealer network could not be establish - yet could have worked had Kawasaki and Hino Motors not been split from Isuzu), while Yamaha would notably produce the Nissan A550X prototype before going on to work with Toyota on the Toyota 2000GT IOTL.

Intriguingly Yamaha themselves started work on a Kei Car in 1958 before they decided to bow out and instead develop a sportscar rather unusually at the low volume end of the range after the Kei Car segment was soon swamped by rivals.

[. . .]
What if however Yamaha not only managed to avoid the slump in scooter and motorcycle sales in Japan, but also decided to return to developing a Kei Car with either a regular car or continuing with carving out its own niche by producing its own production Kei Car analogue of the 1962 Honda S360 sports car prototype for the Japanese domestic market?

Whilst of course still building engines and doing contract work for other car manufacturers' vehicles as in IOTL Yamaha as well as reminiscent of IOTL Lotus Cars with its Lotus Engineering offshoot?

Link

CSP311 development history

I will keep with the Japanese convention of Family name first, thus, KIMURA Kazuo. Also you will see KIMURA san, with san, meaning roughly, Mr. Since we are mainly talking about Japanese people, wh…

csp311.net

Depends on whether or not MITI approves the necessary credit for exporting those products, and directs the Bank of Japan to notify the banks this would be OK. The problem then becomes Japan would have a glut of automakers, so only the best will survive. And if Yamaha and Kawasaki don't shape up, well - that's that for their automotive possibilities, meaning they'd have to contract out to somebody else to slap a Yamaha or Kawasaki badge on somebody else's vehicles. Having said that, if Kawasaki stayed associated with Isuzu, then it could have evolved into something like Daihatsu while Hino could have contented itself with primarily building license-built Renaults and Renault-derived vehicles, building off of the 4CV and Contessa. Yamaha is more difficult in that score, since it would be cannibalizing sales from Nissan (which are both associated with the same kereitsu), unless it turns itself into another sales channel as another branding of Nissan vehicles (replacing the Nissan Cherry Store dealer chain in Japan). Now, on Wiki I found this:

In May 1955, the Ministry of International Trade and Industry announced a promotional program called the "People's Car." Their executive summary of the foreseen car was described as, “a four-seater with a top speed of 100 km/h, priced at ¥150,000." It immediately established the engineering target for manufacturers producing passenger cars of the coming era. Eventually several mini passenger models debuted in answer to MITI’s proposal, including Suzuki's Suzulight in October 1955 and the Subaru 360 in March 1958.

Something that small, and probably in the Suzulight/360 mold could work well for Yamaha's expertise - so basically imagine what a Nissan Cherry would look like with 1950s styling, shrunken dimensions (to fit the kei car regs) and a 360 cc engine, and there you go. So we have a "family" product that could fit in with the then-Datsun lineup (whose vehicles were largely geared towards the taxi market at the time) that arrives around the time the Suzulight and the Subaru 360 are introduced, which gives Yamaha time to learn about automobile production before it's allowed to break out. It also helps that it could also use Nissan resources that early to help develop the family car before moving onto a coupé-cabriolet model. (It would also help that IOTL the Honda S360 never made it to market and something else came up instead that probably fit MITI's requirements better, which means Yamaha would have some breathing room in building a vehicle complementing the Fairlady but in a smaller package.)

EDIT: Yes, I know I misread it, but that's how I could see it. Nissan had a gap in its vehicle lineup that could easily be filled. While it sounds initially horrific, it actually makes a lot of sense to me. A Yamaha kei car would be the starting point for getting into larger (but not too large to avoid directly competing with Nissan, unless it submits to a badge-engineering exercise) vehicles in the small-size passenger vehicle category. In that case, it would basically be 2 family cars, not just 1 (though four-seater kei cars are probably not all that unusual). The Yamaha kei car in that could serve as the basic platform (thereby jumping ahead of the curve in terms of developing modular/shared automobile platforms, within the limits of 1950s/1960s technology) which could be stretched to serve other purposes.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Depends on whether or not MITI approves the necessary credit for exporting those products, and directs the Bank of Japan to notify the banks this would be OK. The problem then becomes Japan would have a glut of automakers, so only the best will survive. And if Yamaha and Kawasaki don't shape up, well - that's that for their automotive possibilities, meaning they'd have to contract out to somebody else to slap a Yamaha or Kawasaki badge on somebody else's vehicles. Having said that, if Kawasaki stayed associated with Isuzu, then it could have evolved into something like Daihatsu while Hino could have contented itself with primarily building license-built Renaults and Renault-derived vehicles, building off of the 4CV and Contessa. Yamaha is more difficult in that score, since it would be cannibalizing sales from Nissan (which are both associated with the same kereitsu), unless it turns itself into another sales channel as another branding of Nissan vehicles (replacing the Nissan Cherry Store dealer chain in Japan). Now, on Wiki I found this:

Something that small, and probably in the Suzulight/360 mold could work well for Yamaha's expertise - so basically imagine what a Nissan Cherry would look like with 1950s styling, shrunken dimensions (to fit the kei car regs) and a 360 cc engine, and there you go. So we have a "family" product that could fit in with the then-Datsun lineup (whose vehicles were largely geared towards the taxi market at the time) that arrives around the time the Suzulight and the Subaru 360 are introduced, which gives Yamaha time to learn about automobile production before it's allowed to break out. It also helps that it could also use Nissan resources that early to help develop the family car before moving onto a coupé-cabriolet model. (It would also help that IOTL the Honda S360 never made it to market and something else came up instead that probably fit MITI's requirements better, which means Yamaha would have some breathing room in building a vehicle complementing the Fairlady but in a smaller package.)

EDIT: Yes, I know I misread it, but that's how I could see it. Nissan had a gap in its vehicle lineup that could easily be filled. While it sounds initially horrific, it actually makes a lot of sense to me. A Yamaha kei car would be the starting point for getting into larger (but not too large to avoid directly competing with Nissan, unless it submits to a badge-engineering exercise) vehicles in the small-size passenger vehicle category. In that case, it would basically be 2 family cars, not just 1 (though four-seater kei cars are probably not all that unusual). The Yamaha kei car in that could serve as the basic platform (thereby jumping ahead of the curve in terms of developing modular/shared automobile platforms, within the limits of 1950s/1960s technology) which could be stretched to serve other purposes.

In Kawasaki's case being retained / acquired by an Isuzu Motors which also holds on to what became Hino Motors, would allow Kawasaki to play a similar role with a wanked ATL Isuzu like IOTL Daihatsu with Toyota.

Inevitably Hino Motors would ideally be butterflied away ITTL though it is an acceptable cost, as it would at the same time further bolster this ATL "undivided" Isuzu's car division and allow them to better resist a takeover from General Motors (who focus their attention on Suzuki instead ITTL) with ATL Kawasaki Cars producing both Kei Cars (e.g. Daihatsu Fellow Max) as well as a smaller Hino Contessa analogue (e.g. Daihatsu Compagno) that does not overlap with the OTL Isuzu Bellett.

It is indeed notable that Nissan never entered the Kei Car segment IOTL prior to the Suzuki Alto-based Nissan Pixo, perhaps the extent of Nissan's involvement with ATL Yamaha's Car division could be limited at best to Nissan and Yamaha coming to a deal where the former sells Yamaha Kei Cars rebadged as Datsun / Nissan a few decades earlier to slot below the Sunny (later Cherry and Micra)?

As far as suitable Kei Car templates for ATL Yamaha to work could have gone, there was many permutations they could have pursued from a DKW inspired route to something amounting to either a FWD Honda N360/N600 or front-engined RWD Mazda Chantez analogue with an OHC (if not DOHC) version of the early 358-782cc Carol/Familia all-alloy water-cooled Mazda OHV 4-cylinder engines.

 

[Dan1988]

Inevitably Hino Motors would ideally be butterflied away ITTL though it is an acceptable cost, as it would at the same time further bolster this ATL "undivided" Isuzu's car division and allow them to better resist a takeover from General Motors (who focus their attention on Suzuki instead ITTL) with ATL Kawasaki Cars producing both Kei Cars (e.g. Daihatsu Fellow Max) as well as a smaller Hino Contessa analogue (e.g. Daihatsu Compagno) that does not overlap with the OTL Isuzu Bellett.

Makes sense. But then that leaves the question - does Isuzu and/or Kawasaki use/retain the Renault licence-building arrangement?

It is indeed notable that Nissan never entered the Kei Car segment IOTL prior to the Suzuki Alto-based Nissan Pixo,

Though Nissan did let it be used for rebadged kei cars from other manufacturers, such as the Nissan Moco (< Suzuki MR Wagon). But that's too recent.

perhaps the extent of Nissan's involvement with ATL Yamaha's Car division could be limited at best to Nissan and Yamaha coming to a deal where the former sells Yamaha Kei Cars rebadged as Datsun / Nissan a few decades earlier to slot below the Sunny (later Cherry and Micra)?

For the Nissan Store dealer chain? Sure.

As far as suitable Kei Car templates for ATL Yamaha to work could have gone, there was many permutations they could have pursued from a DKW inspired route to something amounting to either a FWD Honda N360/N600 or front-engined RWD Mazda Chantez analogue with an OHC (if not DOHC) version of the early 358-782cc Carol/Familia all-alloy water-cooled Mazda OHV 4-cylinder engines.

Well, the earliest ones I could think of, because they came out around the time of MITI's National Car project and the first big loosening of the kei car regulations (hence the name for Subaru's entry), making it an attractive target that early in the '50s. And surely with motorcycle expertise, they probably know well how to crank out a bunch of extra km/h or so from a 360 cc engine. (How does one say "good things come in small packages" in Japanese?)

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Makes sense. But then that leaves the question - does Isuzu and/or Kawasaki use/retain the Renault licence-building arrangement?

ATL Isuzu would make use of their ties with Rootes ITTL as in OTL rather than with Renault like Hino Motors did, Kawasaki's ties with the former would provide it with the necessary dealer network to justify producing the Kawasaki KZ360 prototype along with an upscaled 4-cylinder OHC version of the 360cc KZ360 2-cylinder OHC unit which can be best described as a 750-1270cc composite of the IOTL Hino Contessa and Hillman Imp.

Well, the earliest ones I could think of, because they came out around the time of MITI's National Car project and the first big loosening of the kei car regulations (hence the name for Subaru's entry), making it an attractive target that early in the '50s. And surely with motorcycle expertise, they probably know well how to crank out a bunch of extra km/h or so from a 360 cc engine. (How does one say "good things come in small packages" in Japanese?)

Yamaha's first motorcycle was produced in the mid-1950s and only considered a Kei Car entry in the late-1950s IOTL, so it is easy to see them go down a two-stroke or even a four-stroke yet air-cooled route with an ATL Kei Car. OTOH they might opt to bide their time and draw upon more ideas from both Europe as well as the later Kei Car entries by other domestic Japanese rivals (like they did IOTL for the engine with the Yamaha YX30 prototype in the case of the former), before eventually embracing a more Honda like yet better costed approach to entering the Kei Car Segment whilst seeking to carve out new niches in the Kei Car Segment ITTL.

 

[Dan1988]

Yamaha's first motorcycle was produced in the mid-1950s and only considered a Kei Car entry in the late-1950s IOTL, so it is easy to see them go down a two-stroke or even a four-stroke yet air-cooled route with an ATL Kei Car.

Considering later environmental regulations in Japan that drove two-stroke engines (the specialty of certain automakers like Suzuki, IIRC) out of the market, it would be nice for Yamaha to get ahead of the curve with a four-stroke engine here.

 

[tomo pauk]

Yamaha being the 'Japanese BMW' has a nice ring to it. OTOH, Honda is/was probably closest to that historically?

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Considering later environmental regulations in Japan that drove two-stroke engines (the specialty of certain automakers like Suzuki, IIRC) out of the market, it would be nice for Yamaha to get ahead of the curve with a four-stroke engine here.

Would agree. Yamaha does not have to go full-blown DOHC like Honda did with their early cars at the lower end of the range (let alone Alfa Romeo with their 1950s FWD 2-cylinder DOHC Project 13-61) or Yamaha themselves with their sportscar project, just merely be a cut above the domestic opposition.

Suzuki attempted to sell the two-stroke Suzuki Fronte 800 in the 1960s (even developing an 1100cc version akin to the DKW F102) though potential customers were a lot more demanding in the National Car segment, unlike Kei Car customers until Suzuki finally introduced the four-stroke Suzuki F engine in the Front/Alto Kei Car from 1980.

Japanese customers would also later be put off by the air-cooled Honda 1300 when it was launched in 1969.

Yamaha being the 'Japanese BMW' has a nice ring to it. OTOH, Honda is/was probably closest to that historically?

Cannot say really regarding Honda. Maybe Alfa Romeo inspired is more apt based on Honda's early small DOHC engines, yet even Honda felt the need to introduce Acura.

There is an opportunity for Yamaha to fill the void as a Japanese Alfa Romeo/Lotus/BMW ITTL, though it is quite a tall order for them to realise such a vision without carving out new niches (e.g. domestic Kei Sportscar preceding early-90s Honda Beat as well as the Suzuki Cappuccino, etc) and gradually establishing credibility.

 

[Dan1988]

Would agree. Yamaha does not have to go full-blown DOHC like Honda did with their early cars at the lower end of the range (let alone Alfa Romeo with their 1950s FWD 2-cylinder DOHC Project 13-61) or Yamaha themselves with their sportscar project, just merely be a cut above the domestic opposition.

Japanese customers would also later be put off by the air-cooled Honda 1300 when it was launched in 1969.

Cannot say really regarding Honda. Maybe Alfa Romeo inspired is more apt based on Honda's early small DOHC engines, yet even Honda felt the need to introduce Acura.

You know, I was recently reading a paper on East Asian economies and their collective economic model(s) for research for another TL project I'm working on, and one thing struck out at me. This is going to sound a bit weird, but hear me out on this.

In September 1959, an American Honda Motor Company storefront in Los Angles (sic) introduced the Honda Dream, the first of several small bikes that, by 1964, were selling 100,000 a month globally. But Honda, never one to rest on his laurels, shifted gears again and jumped into the Japanese auto industry—despite a Japanese Ministry of International Trade and Industry ban on new car companies.

"Government officials ... become an obstacle when you try to do something new," he once said. Nevertheless, in 1963, Honda began producing the lightweight fuel-efficient cars in Japan that were the precursors to the 2-cylinder N600 sedan that would hit American shores in 1969.

<https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/soichiro-honda>

MITI’s influence over Japanese businesses is often overstated. Japanese firms generally follow only the MITI proposals with which they concur. MITI, for instance, did not want Mitsubishi and Honda to build cars, and did not want Sony to purchase U.S. transistor technology. The companies, however, went ahead, and entire industries were transformed.

<https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-japanese-industrial-policy/>

Turns out there was a lot of resistance from the Japanese government regarding expanding automakers beyond the existing kereitsu (which sounds odd in the case of Mitsubishi). Now, it would be easy to restrict it to the existing automakers that existed in the 1950s, but that had me thinking - and which brings me over to the Yamaha connection. Let's assume MITI is successful here and pressures Honda to give up being an automaker (since its comparative advantage, both in terms of exports and the domestic market, is motorcycles). Desperate, Soichiro Honda has to come up with something to salvage the project. So, what if Honda decided to do a tie-up with Yamaha (and, indirectly, with Nissan) in terms of automobile production? It wouldn't be the first time rivals in the Japanese market came together to jointly produce something, and in this case the S360 prototype would not be left to waste - just revise it a bit with the help of Nissan's engineers, throw in a Yamaha engine and slap a Yamaha badge on it, and sell it through that sales network - and, in return, Honda becomes linked to the Fuyo kereitsu (> Nissan, Yamaha), now known as Mizuho. The consequences would certainly be immense.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

You know, I was recently reading a paper on East Asian economies and their collective economic model(s) for research for another TL project I'm working on, and one thing struck out at me. This is going to sound a bit weird, but hear me out on this.

<https://www.asme.org/topics-resources/content/soichiro-honda>


<https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-of-japanese-industrial-policy/>

Turns out there was a lot of resistance from the Japanese government regarding expanding automakers beyond the existing kereitsu (which sounds odd in the case of Mitsubishi). Now, it would be easy to restrict it to the existing automakers that existed in the 1950s, but that had me thinking - and which brings me over to the Yamaha connection. Let's assume MITI is successful here and pressures Honda to give up being an automaker (since its comparative advantage, both in terms of exports and the domestic market, is motorcycles). Desperate, Soichiro Honda has to come up with something to salvage the project. So, what if Honda decided to do a tie-up with Yamaha (and, indirectly, with Nissan) in terms of automobile production? It wouldn't be the first time rivals in the Japanese market came together to jointly produce something, and in this case the S360 prototype would not be left to waste - just revise it a bit with the help of Nissan's engineers, throw in a Yamaha engine and slap a Yamaha badge on it, and sell it through that sales network - and, in return, Honda becomes linked to the Fuyo kereitsu (> Nissan, Yamaha), now known as Mizuho. The consequences would certainly be immense.

The consequences would be immense yet too unpredictable compared to simply allowing Honda to rise as in OTL, while ITTL both wanking the automotive divisions of Yamaha (independent yet tied to an extent with Nissan like Daihatsu to Toyota) as well as Kawasaki (albeit part of a wanked Isuzu Motors that includes what became Hino Motors - creating AFAIK up til recently the largest Japanese manufacturer of trucks and engines with a reasonably sized ATL car division).

At the same time would it have also been the first time the Japanese Big Four motorcycle manufacturers have collaborated with each other as opposed to Japanese carmakers?