Automotive WI - Borgward acquired by a foreign carmaker

[Masked Grizzly]

In OTL both BMC and Chrysler expressed an interest in acquiring Borgward prior to the latter's controversial bankruptcy in 1961.

Out of BMC and Chrysler, which carmaker would have benefited from Borgward's acquisition?

In BMC's case:

They benefit from having access to EEC markets without having high tariffs imposed on their then new FWD products due to being built on the continent thereby effectively saving the company from its problems in the mid/late-60s.

Borgward in turn potentially benefits from producing their own versions of BMC's products, albeit initially with carryover Borgward engines and mechanicals as well as bringing their projects into production such as the Hansa 1300 (powered by a 90 hp 1300cc fuel-injected Flat-4) and Borgward P90 (Isabella replacement with a 1600cc OHC allegedly preceding BMW's M10 4-cylinder).

BMC in turn benefits from utilizing Borgward's RWD platforms to largely replace BMC's outdated RWD models to cater for customers not yet ready to embrace FWD as well as components such as the Borgward P100's air suspension.

In Chrysler's case:

They benefit from having another carmaker on the continent that can be integrated with fellow Chrysler stablemate Simca and establish their European HQ in Germany (like Ford and GM with Opel).

Borgward in turn benefits from being able to bring their shelved projects such as the Hansa 1300 and Borgward P90 into production, while Simca potentially benefits from having a large car in the Borgward P100 to sell as its own to replace the Simca Vedette.

The Simca 1300/1500 meanwhile could have even utilized Borgward's upcoming P90 1600cc OHC engine, while a doubled up 2400cc 6-cylinder OHC version of the former could have been used to replace the Borgward P100 and Simca badged variant. Interestingly have read that the later Chrysler 180 engine also allegedly owes much to the BMW M10 engine.

 

[Coiler]

I would say BMC, provided they do it right. Chrysler was already(from what I can tell) more integrated on the continent in a way that BMC wasn't.

Ideally, Borgward serves as a politics-proof assembler of BMC cars and a firm that has an ear for European (and especially German) tastes, relaying that back to its parent. However, the real Borgward shared a big weakness of BMC (too many brands with the badge engineering to match), so I can see it going wrong.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

I would say BMC, provided they do it right. Chrysler was already(from what I can tell) more integrated on the continent in a way that BMC wasn't.

Ideally, Borgward serves as a politics-proof assembler of BMC cars and a firm that has an ear for European (and especially German) tastes, relaying that back to its parent. However, the real Borgward shared a big weakness of BMC (too many brands with the badge engineering to match), so I can see it going wrong.

Inevitably Borgward needs to cull their marques down to one (possibly using them as model names instead) along with BMC to a lesser degree.

BMC could take the opportunity of Borgward's acquisition to differentiate its UK marques more, with say Morris or to a lesser extent MG sticking to RWD with Frua styling instead of having all marques largely being fully committed to Issigonis's FWD cars with mostly Pininfarina styling as in OTL.

Simca under Chrysler could benefit from a direct Vedette replacement above the Simca 1300/1500 along with the fact that both Simca and Borgward were developing similar 1600cc+ OHC engines akin to the BMW M10 unit, the former after the M10 appeared and the latter before the M10 (despite the BMW M10 unit actually originating as a 900-1300cc unit).

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Seems to be not much love for Borgward under Chrysler, though there are positives and negatives to Borgward being owned by either BMC or Chrysler here is something to consider.

In OTL Simca under Chrysler did not bother developing any engine larger than 4-cylinders for the OTL Chrysler 180 due to French tax laws, until later on they were forced to use the PRV V6 in the Talbot Tagora (that was eligible under French tax laws) after Chrysler Europe was sold to PSA. With Chrysler based in Germany via Borgward there would be no such limitation, with the options potentially ranging from a 2500-3200cc+ Inline-6 version of the Chrysler / Simca 180 or Borgward P90 engines to some version of the Chrysler LA V8 or even potentially a Chrysler Europe conceived compact V8 engine derived from the Simca 180 or Borgward P90 inline-4 engines (think BMW M10-based V8 and you have got the right idea).

http://www.unixnerd.demon.co.uk/lost_engines.html

Basically an ATL Chrysler Europe with Simca and Borgward that is not dominated by the French would have a number of models which would be suitable for export to the US and other markets compared to OTL, whether that would have been enough to allow this ATL Chrysler Europe to survive under Chrysler instead of being sold off is another matter.

At the lower end Borgward under Chrysler could even utilize a version of the Simca 1100 (with different styling from either Frua or Fissore) and powered by its own Goliath-derived 40-90+hp 1100-1300cc Flat-4 engines, though not sure the Flat-4 was capable of being further bored out beyond 1300cc.

 

[Kevin Renner]

There's one other option. Herbert Quandt does not come forward to save BMW. BMW agrees to sell to/become affiliated with AMC. This gives AMC a foothold in the European market. This entity then buys Borgward. BMW was more interested in the belt technology than anything else Borgward had imo. The technology flow in BMW/AMC goes both ways. BMW gets better Unibody and AMC has access to both the BMW V-8 which gets transformed into larger displacement units in both cast iron and aluminum plus better aluminum block technology. Plus BMW gets the tooling for previous models to form the basis of larger cars for say the European/German taxi market. AMC was perhaps the most "European" of the US manufacturers at the time.

Curoiusly on Wikipedia now there is no mention of the offers by Rover or AMC to purchase BMW circa 1959

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Curoiusly on Wikipedia now there is no mention of the offers by Rover or AMC to purchase BMW circa 1959

Heard about Mercedes-Benz being the main candidate to acquire BMW before Herbert Quandt came forward to save it from takeover, though what is the source for Rover and AMC being in the running to purchase BMW? Were they the only ones to have expressed an interest?

Also speaking of AMC were there any foreign carmakers that could have conceivably taken it over aside from Renault in OTL?

 

[Kevin Renner]

As I understand it the fear at BMW was D-B would simply shut them down. The source on Rover and AMC was both a TV documentary on BMW and the AMC and BMW wiki pages. Such things of course can be edited out. I've been playing with a AMC/BMW timeline for a while. Both from the purchase and co-operation POV. Imagine the Tarpon with a BMW derived V-8

 

[Oppo]

BMC would be able to use Borgward's technological advancements, but they also would be able to completely screw it up.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

As I understand it the fear at BMW was D-B would simply shut them down. The source on Rover and AMC was both a TV documentary on BMW and the AMC and BMW wiki pages. Such things of course can be edited out. I've been playing with a AMC/BMW timeline for a while. Both from the purchase and co-operation POV. Imagine the Tarpon with a BMW derived V-8

Not sure how I feel about AMC taking over BMW nor can I see what value Rover saw in BMW for them to be interested in acquiring the latter.

Like the idea of a larger European carmaker taking over AMC and unlike Renault managing to make it work.

BMC would be able to use Borgward's technological advancements, but they also would be able to completely screw it up.

For BMC to be less likely to screw things up it would entail Joe Edwards replacing Leonard Lord (instead of George Harriman) and Alec Issigonis being kept away from non-FWD projects, with RWD projects instead being delegated to someone like Gerald Palmer assuming there was a way to lure him back to BMC from Vauxhall.

 

[Simon]

They benefit from having access to EEC markets without having high tariffs imposed on their then new FWD products due to being built on the continent thereby effectively saving the company from its problems in the mid/late-1960s.

There's also the 1970s where, providing that Borgward-BMC were able to produce right-hand drive models, they could potentially import cars to the UK to try and mitigate supply problems due to strikes. IIRC Ford did something similar.

Edit: Wrote left-hand drive when I meant to write right-hand drive.

 

[Masked Grizzly]

There's also the 1970s where, providing that Borgward-BMC were able to produce left-hand drive models, they could potentially import cars to the UK to try and mitigate supply problems due to strikes. IIRC Ford did something similar.

There is that though it would also entail getting rid of people such as Red Robbo early on and having Joe Edwards in charge of ATL BMC, the latter is said to have had a good relationship with Unions yet even he would have to figure out a way to tactfully use the former Borgward factory at Bremen (and elsewhere on continental Europe) to anticipate such a scenario.

 

[phx1138]

I've always had the impression Borgward was a bit agricultural... So, what are the chances for export to SU (or SovBloc generally) &/or PRC? Or (perhaps even moreso) Yugoslavia? And, later, what about Borgward as a "Lada fighter" (or "Yugo fighter")?

 

[Masked Grizzly]

Doubtful. Borgward had plans to develop more advanced range of cars with styling by Frua that ended up basically reused for the Glas 1700 along with more advanced engines, with it even being alleged that former Borgward engineers joined BMW after Borgward went under and helped develop the BMW M10 engine (that apparently carried over much of the 1600cc OHC Borgward P90 prototype's engine that was intended to replace the Borgward Isabella).

 

[Kalvan]

I wish you had added more choices, or at least "both" to the poll.

Hmm, I wonder if we could have American Motors form early and acquire Borgward as a means to gain entry to the European market? And then, during the Seventies, Borgward's engineering expertise with small cars gives them a leg up during the oil crises. Imagine an AMC Gremlin with the fuel-injected version of the OTL BMW 2002 engine and an independent rear suspension!

 

[Masked Grizzly]

AFAIK BMC and Chrysler were the only interested carmakers in OTL