Austro-Hungarian "Soviet" Union

The Soviet Union was to a large extent a reincarnation of the Tsarist Russian Empire. Not only its territorial control and geopolitical interests matched that of the Russian Empire, but more importantly its ideology and mentality started to get similar to its Imperial predecessor out of either convergent evolution or deliberate imitation.

Another example was Yugoslavia. Post-War communist Yugoslavia was created out of a shattered Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Communist Yugoslavia took lessons from the failure of the Serb-centric Kingdom, and made serious efforts to form a new relationship between the Serbs, the Croats and other nationalities, under the auspice of a new ideology.

Could the Austro-Hungarian Empire be re-created in the same way? Could a country be established in Central and Southern Europe that was comprised of roughly the same fiefdoms (including part of the Southern Germany to strengthen if necessary), but was organized around a radically different ideology (can be communism or others) and a different ruling class.
 
It's hard for me to see how - everyone had an interest in tearing them apart: Italy wnated Trentino and bits of Croatia, Serbia wanted all of their south slavic lands, Romania wanted Transilvania.

If A-H loses WW1, then these areas are almost certainly gone. Of course, the rump state (if there still is any left) could theoretically fall to communism at this point, but, just like with Hungary OTL, its neighbors would intervene.

OTOH, if they won WW1, there is no reason for them to change.

OTOOH, if WW1 never happens, any revolution would mean (at least) big brother Germany would come in and help
 
not sure how plausible it actually is, but it's certainly interesting--even moreso if it was ALL former Habsburg territory
 
I've thought for a while that this is a really cool idea. But I don't know how you'd do it. In Yugoslavia you have different groups of Slavs, in Austria-Hungary you have Germans, Hungarians, several types of Slavs, Italians, it would make Yugoslavia look tame.
 
i'd say it would work better with some other kind of unifying feature among them--perhaps religion? there's a pretty high concentration of Catholics in former Austria-Hungary, it might be able to fit the bill as the communism to Austria-Hungary's USSR (as well a fit as that is--much like the other examples, this other country probably wouldn't last very long in the grand scheme of things, since even the USSR lasted only lasted seventy years as opposed to the Russian Empire's 200, not counting the previous Tsardom and, if it qualifies, the Grand Duchy of Moscow)
 
It's hard for me to see how - everyone had an interest in tearing them apart: Italy wnated Trentino and bits of Croatia, Serbia wanted all of their south slavic lands, Romania wanted Transilvania.

If A-H loses WW1, then these areas are almost certainly gone. Of course, the rump state (if there still is any left) could theoretically fall to communism at this point, but, just like with Hungary OTL, its neighbors would intervene.

OTOH, if they won WW1, there is no reason for them to change.

OTOOH, if WW1 never happens, any revolution would mean (at least) big brother Germany would come in and help

I've thought for a while that this is a really cool idea. But I don't know how you'd do it. In Yugoslavia you have different groups of Slavs, in Austria-Hungary you have Germans, Hungarians, several types of Slavs, Italians, it would make Yugoslavia look tame.

i'd say it would work better with some other kind of unifying feature among them--perhaps religion? there's a pretty high concentration of Catholics in former Austria-Hungary, it might be able to fit the bill as the communism to Austria-Hungary's USSR (as well a fit as that is--much like the other examples, this other country probably wouldn't last very long in the grand scheme of things, since even the USSR lasted only lasted seventy years as opposed to the Russian Empire's 200, not counting the previous Tsardom and, if it qualifies, the Grand Duchy of Moscow)

With the exception of Italy and Italian-speaking regions, which the AH could lose without causing a total collapse.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the Habsburg Empire had a German-speaking core in South Germany and Austria, as well as a series of German-speaking cities in a sea of Slavs and Magyar Land-owning gentry and peasantry. The Empire collapsed largely because with economic development forms a new Slavic/Magyar urban/bourgeoisie, which comes with their own nationalism.

My thoughts about the "Austro-Hungarian Soviet Union" is that the new state could have an ideology attractive enough for the Slavic/Magyar peasants who were not yet affected by Nationalism, and provide them with certain channel for upward mobility, which was linked to German-language education, so that the Magyar and Slavic peasantry would feel more attached with the "foreign" state rather than their own gentry/middle class.

Since such a program would be socialist in nature, it has to be justified by a socialist ideology, but yet, Catholicism, which upheld the Empire for centuries, must also be kept. This gives us a sort of religious socialism.

Would the addition of several Catholic southern Germany states also help?
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, the Habsburg Empire had a German-speaking core in South Germany and Austria, as well as a series of German-speaking cities in a sea of Slavs and Magyar Land-owning gentry and peasantry. The Empire collapsed largely because with economic development forms a new Slavic/Magyar urban/bourgeoisie, which comes with their own nationalism.

My thoughts about the "Austro-Hungarian Soviet Union" is that the new state could have an ideology attractive enough for the Slavic/Magyar peasants who were not yet affected by Nationalism, and provide them with certain channel for upward mobility, which was linked to German-language education, so that the Magyar and Slavic peasantry would feel more attached with the "foreign" state rather than their own gentry/middle class.

I don't think it's entirely accurate that the Slavic, Romanian, Magyar etc. peasantry was not affected by nationalism/separatism, or that it was just a vehicle of the urban middle classes.

Austria-Hungary consistently backed and supported the "gentry" (bureaucrats, landlords etc.) against the peasantry. Class-based unrest often overlapped with nationalism, if not always in the exact same ways. A new state which genuinely challenged this conservative inertia could only be created through revolutionary and chaotic circumstances...and in such circumstances, large chunks of the old Empire are going to happily separate anyway. I think the most that could survive get is some kind of a socialist federation between cores of Austria and Hungary and maybe the Czechs and/or Slovaks.
 
i'd say it would work better with some other kind of unifying feature among them--perhaps religion? there's a pretty high concentration of Catholics in former Austria-Hungary, it might be able to fit the bill as the communism to Austria-Hungary's USSR (as well a fit as that is--much like the other examples, this other country probably wouldn't last very long in the grand scheme of things, since even the USSR lasted only lasted seventy years as opposed to the Russian Empire's 200, not counting the previous Tsardom and, if it qualifies, the Grand Duchy of Moscow)

Religion is pretty much one of the worst unifiers in the very multi-confessional empire, with Catholics, Protestants, Reformed Christians, Greek Catholics, Greek Orthodox Christians and Jews all in great quantities.

About the original idea, I think the best option would be a late, miracle Central Powers victory that isn't too overwhelming (e.g. France knocked out of the war, but Germany is unable to stop the resurrection of the Soviet Union and is forced to settle for only some of its wargoals in the east), with a few changes before and during the war to wank communism in the region. By the end of the war, A-H was falling apart and the disintegration of the state could probably only have been subverted by A-H reinventing itself anyway - a Danubian Federation of Socialist Republics or something could have fit the bill. I doubt it could have made the transition with its territory intact, but I think Hungary (which went communist IRL), Austria (which would have seen this as an opportunity to preserve its influence over Transleithania), Galicia-Lodomeria (which was just pretty poor and stuff) and Bohemia (which had an advanced urban proletariat but was also quite multiethnic) could have all potentially become hotbeds for communist sentiment, enough to keep the rest of the country together if communist movements come to power. Of course, it is an advantage if Soviet Russia exists.

(The Hungarian Soviet Republic was pretty strong IRL, actually, despite having had to rebuild its army from scratch, and quick, after Károlyi disarmed it. Sadly they never stood a chance, but with a larger proportion of communist support in the former dual monarchy, I think this could have been pulled off if everything went right.)
 
Another option is having Austria-Hungary's Karl I/IV succeed in his attempt to peace out of the war. Suppose the French (who were the main opponents to the idea) accept and Austria bows out as neutral ... but by this point, the country is deeply in trouble.

Germany finds itself disinclined to intervene (and generally unable to do so anyway) and Austria-Hungary collapses into revolution (it was pretty shaky OTL). As Russia collapses into its own revolution (leading to a potential eventual alliance) and Germany is distracted, there's only Italy to deal with (and the border there isn't exactly conductive to advances) ... and Poland, I guess.

Of course, the issue is that communist thought in Austria-Hungary had, by that point, abandoned the idea of a multi-ethnic union in favour of national revolutions (albeit allied in solidarity as revolutionaries). You'd need an earlier PoD to get them to adopt an idea of a multi-ethnic brotherhood of peoples in a single nation as their guiding principle.
 
Of course, the issue is that communist thought in Austria-Hungary had, by that point, abandoned the idea of a multi-ethnic union in favour of national revolutions (albeit allied in solidarity as revolutionaries). You'd need an earlier PoD to get them to adopt an idea of a multi-ethnic brotherhood of peoples in a single nation as their guiding principle.

I'm not familiar with OTL Austro-Hungarian communism, until which point were they still insisting on a multi-ethnic union?
 
Probably not. The Russian Empire and Soviet Union was dominated by Russians. The Austro-Hungarian empire was not dominated by either Austrians or Hungarians alone. The collaboration of both was needed.

The Yugoslavs at least are the "southern Slavs" and have some kind of theoretical unity. There is nothing really uniting AH.

Some kind of "Danubian Confederation" was speculated about multiple times in the interwar period, but there was no real basis of support among the people there. It was always a foreign power idea hoping to build a major state that could balance the Germans or Soviets. It is hard to see how any version of that could actually happen.
 
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