Austrian Victory at Wagram; Napoleon dies: Effects of Austrian victory in Fifth Coalition?

CH33K1 N4ND0Z · Jan 2, 2017

Probably a mouthful of a title there.

So I was wondering what the effects on the Napoleonic Wars would be if Napoleon was killed at the Battle of Wagram, and Charles won. Would the Coalition win the war if Napoleon dies? Would Prussia join in? Would France collapse, or would Joseph keep it together? What would be the effects on Spain? On Russia? Would they betray France or stay with them.

CH33K1 N4ND0Z · Jan 2, 2017

Bump.

CH33K1 N4ND0Z · Jan 3, 2017

Bump.

DTF955Baseballfan · Jan 3, 2017

Remember that OTL Austria and Prussia almost got into a fight over Saxony till Napoleon returned. TTL, Austria will likely be able to keep any claims over Prussia becasue they were winners while IIRC Prussia wasn't in that coalition from the beginning. (THough I do have a hard time keeping them straight.)

Will Louis remain in the Neterlands? he was quite popular for a while. If he joins the Coalition after his brother is killed (I doubt he would otherwise) then he might get a little something, though maybe not the Austrian Netherland too; it's probably returned to Austria as a prize for winning.

Russia is still fighting Sweden at this point, IIRC, which could put the russians on Britain's naughty list. Might mean that some part of Poland could remain; unless it was all Prussian territory that made up the Poland that Nappy created. If any of Russian Poland was, it could either stay or be part of a bargaining chip - cease the war with Sweden or Britain will support the creation of a Poland within Russian borders.

CH33K1 N4ND0Z · Jan 3, 2017

I am positive that the entire Duchy of Warsaw was made up of South Prussia and New East Prussia, incorporating New Galicia following the Polish-Austrian War, without any Russian land. I agree with you that Lodewijk may join the coalition following the fall of Napoleon, as he acted very Dutch-like during his tenure as King of Holland. I also concur that Prussia will have no argument to support their claim over Saxony vs that of Austria, seeing as it basically was Austria that won the war, seeing as they killed Napoleon.

Another question to be asked: Would Austria, following the defeat of France, conclude the War with a Austro-Prusso-Swedo-British invasion of Russia (If Russia doesn't join the Coalition)? Would it succeed like the Eastern Front of WWII? Or would it fail as with Napoleon's. I believe personally it is a matter of when they would possibly invade (if they do). If during the warmer times, it may succeed, but during the colder months, it would fail disastrously, as people say, Russia is its own best general.

Georgia2003123 · Jan 4, 2017

I have an idea how about at the end of the fifth coalition instead of dismantling the duchy of Warsaw Austria puts a Habsburg on the throne and turns the duchy into the kingdom of Poland or aka Austria's new puppt state/servent

fhaessig · Jan 4, 2017

I am not convinced that Austrian Victory at Wagram and Napoleon's death equal Austrian victory in the war. There were other French armies and other talented French Generals/marshalls. I might turn into a war of retribution that ends with Vienna being razed and the land salted.

CH33K1 N4ND0Z · Jan 4, 2017

Well, Napoleon was irreplaceable. He was an excellent general, who could do amazing things with his armies. He had other fine marshals, such as Davout, but even Davout was no replacement for Napoleon. Besides, the morale sink caused by the death of Napoleon would destabilize in an instant French allies such as the Confederation of the Rhine, as German nationalism would likely surge at such a victory for Austria. Even French morale would probably go down after the loss of such a talented general, and their head of state with it, as Joseph was no Napoleon.