Austrian instead of Spanish Netherlands

Say, that, somehow, in the 16th century, the Habsburg Netherlands end up with the Austrian Habsburgs instead of with the Spanish Habsburgs. Can the Austrian Habsburgs, due to being more religiously tolerant and less centralistic, prevent a revolt there? If not, due to being in a much better geographic position, can they crush the revolt? What effects does no Eighty Years' War have on Spain? Could the Netherlands be part of an alternate Germany?
 
The revolt can be averted, or at least post-phoned really easily: don't remove William the Silent from his position as governor of Antwerp. The root cause of his revolt is that he lost the positions he gained as nobleman and as friend of Charles V when Philips II became Lord of the Netherlands.
 
Austrian or not Spanish Netherlands would be better for everyone but you need to work a little on weddings and childrens because having Charles who simply left Netherlands to Ferdinand instead of Philip is impossible and Isabella Clara Eugenia having surviving children is already too late...

Habsburg but not Spanish Burgundy:

a) Mary Tudor die eight/ten months later than OTL so Isabel of France marry Don Carlos as originally established and their eldest son (or daughter married to an Austrian cousin) will inhereit Spain, Portugal, Naples, Sicily, Sardinia, Milan and colonies. Philip instead being widowed and without any immediate prospect will stay free a little longer and then remarry to the widowed Mary Stuart and their son will inhereit Scotland, England, Ireland and Netherlands...
b) Mary Tudor has a son or daughter by Philip who will inhereit England and Netherlands (if Mary has a son don Carlos need to have issue, if her child is a daughter then she will marry an Austrian cousin).
c) Charles V had a second son, either from Isabella or by a second wife who inhereit the Netherlands
d) Philip and Juana live longer and have a third son who will inhereit Burgundy directly from his father

Austrian Burgundy
a) Mary Tudor never became Queen of England so Philip do not marry her and Charles at his abdication decide to left the Netherlands to his eldest daughter Maria (who is married to Maximilian of Austria, the eldest son and heir of Ferdinand).
b) Charles decide to give Netherlands as dowry or promised inheritance to Maria at the time of her wedding to Maximilian
c) Charles never became King of Spain so his line will rule on Netherlands and Austria (plus Bohemia and Hungary if he marry Anne Jagellon or both she and her brother Louis die without heirs) while Ferdinand rule Spain (maybe HRE Maximilian die before Ferdinand of Aragon so the latter is able to persuade the Cortes of Castile and Aragon to recognize as his heir Ferdinand, who is the younger son of Juana but is fully Spanish, being born and raised there instead of Charles, who is a foreign and already Duke of Burgundy and the newly elected as Holy Roman Emperor)
 
Austrian or not Spanish Netherlands would be better for everyone but you need to work a little on weddings and childrens because having Charles who simply left Netherlands to Ferdinand instead of Philip is impossible and Isabella Clara Eugenia having surviving children is already too late...

Habsburg but not Spanish Burgundy:

a) Mary Tudor die eight/ten months later than OTL so Isabel of France marry Don Carlos as originally established and their eldest son (or daughter married to an Austrian cousin) will inhereit Spain, Portugal, Naples, Sicily, Sardinia, Milan and colonies. Philip instead being widowed and without any immediate prospect will stay free a little longer and then remarry to the widowed Mary Stuart and their son will inhereit Scotland, England, Ireland and Netherlands...
b) Mary Tudor has a son or daughter by Philip who will inhereit England and Netherlands (if Mary has a son don Carlos need to have issue, if her child is a daughter then she will marry an Austrian cousin).
c) Charles V had a second son, either from Isabella or by a second wife who inhereit the Netherlands
d) Philip and Juana live longer and have a third son who will inhereit Burgundy directly from his father

Austrian Burgundy
a) Mary Tudor never became Queen of England so Philip do not marry her and Charles at his abdication decide to left the Netherlands to his eldest daughter Maria (who is married to Maximilian of Austria, the eldest son and heir of Ferdinand).
b) Charles decide to give Netherlands as dowry or promised inheritance to Maria at the time of her wedding to Maximilian
c) Charles never became King of Spain so his line will rule on Netherlands and Austria (plus Bohemia and Hungary if he marry Anne Jagellon or both she and her brother Louis die without heirs) while Ferdinand rule Spain (maybe HRE Maximilian die before Ferdinand of Aragon so the latter is able to persuade the Cortes of Castile and Aragon to recognize as his heir Ferdinand, who is the younger son of Juana but is fully Spanish, being born and raised there instead of Charles, who is a foreign and already Duke of Burgundy and the newly elected as Holy Roman Emperor)

What about Philip deciding, that, he already has much territory and, that, the Netherlands are unnecessary and costly, and, then, selling them to Ferdinand?
 
What about Philip deciding, that, he already has much territory and, that, the Netherlands are unnecessary and costly, and, then, selling them to Ferdinand?
Pretty unlikely to happen as neither King is the man who will do that kind of business plus that kind of move would favor only France (who is and will be always interested in Burgundy/Netherlands) plus at that time the big damage would be already done...

With my latest PODs (aka the child by Mary Tudor or the wedding to Marie of Scotland) Philip in 1668 would have a not Spanish heir for Netherlands while England and Scotland would be most likely Catholic kingdoms again and Netherlands will be likely ruled by London (or more unlikely by Edinburgh)
 
Pretty unlikely to happen as neither King is the man who will do that kind of business plus that kind of move would favor only France (who is and will be always interested in Burgundy/Netherlands) plus at that time the big damage would be already done...

With my latest PODs (aka the child by Mary Tudor or the wedding to Marie of Scotland) Philip in 1668 would have a not Spanish heir for Netherlands while England and Scotland would be most likely Catholic kingdoms again and Netherlands will be likely ruled by London (or more unlikely by Edinburgh)

Maybe he could sell it during the rebellion. Maybe Philip decides, that, the Netherlands are a militarily burden and a money sink for Spain and decides, that, the Austrian Habsburgs, due to their location, will have better luck dealing with them.
 
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According to https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ot-to-spain-but-audtria.412010/#post-14413017, Charles V did contemplate to give the Burgundian Inheritance to his daughter Mary and her husband Maximilian II, the eldest son of Ferdinand but suspected that Maximilian had too much protestant sympathies.

IIRC Queen Mary of England may have been promised the Netherlands if she had children, a Habsburg led Anglo-Dutch Union would be "interesting" especially given the ongoing religious tensions.
 
IIRC Queen Mary of England may have been promised the Netherlands if she had children, a Habsburg led Anglo-Dutch Union would be "interesting" especially given the ongoing religious tensions.
Charles gave the Netherlands to Philip at the time of his wedding to Mary and destined to the children of the couple in the wedding contract.
Before that Charles thinked more than once to give them to his daughter Maria (as dowry when she was offered to the Duke of Orleans, as dowry or future heritage when she married Maximilian) but in the end Karl kept them for himself until Philip’s second wedding.
If Karl had a second son by Isabella or remarried and had other children by his second wife Netherlands would be likely settled on them...
 
Bump, does anyone else have anything more to say? I, personally, think, that, Spain would be much better off, since it wouldn't have to waste so many resources on the Eighty Years' War and would not have its colonies attacked by the Dutch.
 
Bump, does anyone else have anything more to say? I, personally, think, that, Spain would be much better off, since it wouldn't have to waste so many resources on the Eighty Years' War and would not have its colonies attacked by the Dutch.
Yes, not having Netherlands under Spanish rule would be great for both countries but is quite difficult obtaining this result with the OTL situation... I already told you the ways in which it can realistically happen so if you wish try feel free to develop one of my scenarios
 
Yes, not having Netherlands under Spanish rule would be great for both countries but is quite difficult obtaining this result with the OTL situation... I already told you the ways in which it can realistically happen so if you wish try feel free to develop one of my scenarios

Maybe the Habsburgs never inheriting Spain, in the first place, would be another way.
 
You're right, my original post involved the Habsburgs inheriting Spain.
For me the best way is keeping Charles V away from Spain...
Ferdinand of Aragon surely tried to get the whole Spanish inheritance for Ferdinand (of Austria) and that will likely include a wedding between Ferdinand and Isabella (of Portugal) so if he can live a little onger and get the support of the Cortes for his plan...
 
Say, that, somehow, in the 16th century, the Habsburg Netherlands end up with the Austrian Habsburgs instead of with the Spanish Habsburgs. Can the Austrian Habsburgs, due to being more religiously tolerant and less centralistic, prevent a revolt there? If not, due to being in a much better geographic position, can they crush the revolt? What effects does no Eighty Years' War have on Spain? Could the Netherlands be part of an alternate Germany?

The Austrian Habsburgs approach to religion was somewhat different from their Spanish cousins, but not much and also had to do with the political reality and power. The Austrian Habsburg, also played the long game, since they had less resources than the Spanish Habsburgs. It doesn't mean, they had no wealthy possessions and this ITTL would be augmented by Burgundian Inheritance.
If the Austrian Habsburgs still inherit Bohemia and Hungary, then I can see a Habsburg Holy Roman Emperor having his Imperial Court in Vienna or Prague, but once elected a Habsburg King of the Romans could have his Royal Court in Brussels (probably also before his election, since being made Governor of the Habsburg Netherlands, once he reaches adulthood, would be useful training ground).
To crush the revolt might still entail some Spanish involvement, directly and indirectly, also to keep France at bay. It's also possible that the Revolt can be averted from reaching the point of no return. Certainly at the beginning of the conflict the majority was still Catholic, but they liked the Protestants did share some political grievances. If the Austrian Habsburgs, avoid some mistakes and manage to compromise on some other political issues, thus making the conflict mostly about religion and much less about politics, that would also greatly help.

As for an alternate Germany, only as an autonomous region with Dutch being recognized as an official language.
 
The Austrian Habsburgs approach to religion was somewhat different from their Spanish cousins, but not much and also had to do with the political reality and power. The Austrian Habsburg, also played the long game, since they had less resources than the Spanish Habsburgs. It doesn't mean, they had no wealthy possessions and this ITTL would be augmented by Burgundian Inheritance.
If the Austrian Habsburgs still inherit Bohemia and Hungary, then I can see a Habsburg Holy Roman Emperor having his Imperial Court in Vienna or Prague, but once elected a Habsburg King of the Romans could have his Royal Court in Brussels (probably also before his election, since being made Governor of the Habsburg Netherlands, once he reaches adulthood, would be useful training ground).
To crush the revolt might still entail some Spanish involvement, directly and indirectly, also to keep France at bay. It's also possible that the Revolt can be averted from reaching the point of no return. Certainly at the beginning of the conflict the majority was still Catholic, but they liked the Protestants did share some political grievances. If the Austrian Habsburgs, avoid some mistakes and manage to compromise on some other political issues, thus making the conflict mostly about religion and much less about politics, that would also greatly help.

As for an alternate Germany, only as an autonomous region with Dutch being recognized as an official language.

Regarding a revolt, it's said in
https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...ot-to-spain-but-audtria.412010/#post-14419939 by J VonAxel: "For the Netherlands it would mean staying in the HRE. Revolting against a distant Spanish King (separated by "allied" France) is a lot different then revolting against the HRE who is right next door. And has multiple exelent rivers and roads to march his army into the Netherlands. And none of the German princes/bishops can tell the HREmperor that he can't march his armies through his Empire/their lands." The Austrian Hasburgs would be in a much better geographic position.
A for an alternate Germany, when, exactly, did Dutch and German cease to be mutually intelligible?
 
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