Austria Wins the *Austro-Prussian War: Austrian Domestic Politics

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
I have an ASB-lite backstory where Prussia antagonises German revolutionaries and spends a decade putting down insurrections in the German Confederation, abroad, and at home before France and Austria crush Prussia. But Austria itself is hijacked by revolutionary sentiment and Russia moves in to protect a rump Prussia and prevent the creation of a Grossdeutschland, frustrating the German revolutionaries. Nevertheless, Austria now contains many more industrial centres and revolutionaries and the very nature of the state must change.

Eventually, I want the early development of *Austromarxism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austromarxism) and *national personal autonomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_personal_autonomy) after "Austria" fails in both its pan-German and pan-Slavic (a war against Russia as an equivalent to the Russian Civil War) attempts and needs to find an ideology which can accommodate a multiethnic, consociational state. This leads to a more successful *Bundism, and along with the survival of the Ottoman Empire and the millet system, leads to a 20th century where consociationalism is the preferred alternative to separatism in some parts of the world.

Anyway, quite apart from this scenario, what do you think would happen in the domestic politics of the Austrian Empire if it decisively won the Austro-Prussian War, but failed to fully unite Germany? It would have to appease the German revolutionaries within its territory somehow. Would the Hungarians still try something in 1867? What happens to the other nationalities in the Austrian Empire?
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
Anyway, quite apart from this scenario, what do you think would happen in the domestic politics of the Austrian Empire if it decisively won the Austro-Prussian War, but failed to fully unite Germany? It would have to appease the German revolutionaries within its territory somehow. Would the Hungarians still try something in 1867? What happens to the other nationalities in the Austrian Empire?

No thoughts?
 
I have to do a little more research on the matter my self but, I know there would be absolutely know chance of a unified Germany. And I believe the Hungarians would lose most of their inklings against the emperor if were, as you describe, A truly decisive victory for the Austrians. Possibly no dual monarchy. And better relations with France in case of further infractions. (Franco-Prussian war)
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
If the Austrian Empire had been hijacked by German revolutionaries who were unable to complete their mission of uniting Germany, what do you think the Austrian Empire would be called? 'Austria' would be too artficially narrow and arbitrary for the German revolutionaries and the rest of the population wouldn't want anything too indicative of Germany. If the Austrian Empire has just been sucked into the liberal revolutionary cause and the Hapsburgs have little choice but to be figureheads for said cause, could new rights be afforded to non-German subjects?
 
Of course, what this forgets is that Austria would have decisively thrashed the Italians (which they kind of did OTL), and then exploit, taking, say, Milan and Bologna before a peace.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
Of course, what this forgets is that Austria would have decisively thrashed the Italians (which they kind of did OTL), and then exploit, taking, say, Milan and Bologna before a peace.

Well, France's help would probably come with strings attached, in Italy as well as the Rhineland. OTL, wasn't the Austrian defence in Veneto more a face-saving measure whereby the Austrians would let the area go after the war in exchange for Silesia and the French not intervening (Nappy III assuming the Austrians would win)? That and the people seizing power within Austria and helping Austria from the German states wouldn't really care about the Hapsburg's dynastic claims. And the deposed Hapsburgs from Modena and Tuscany might be more content with Rhenish possessions.

But, to be honest, I'm flexible on such matters. I'm actually aiming for a Danubian superpower, so it's not like that would harm those prospects, though it does add a large number of Italians on top of Germans, Slavs, and Hungarians, increasing centrifugal forces within the state and making compromises between all the groups less likely.
 

Rush Tarquin

Gone Fishin'
If the Austrian Empire had been hijacked by German revolutionaries who were unable to complete their mission of uniting Germany, what do you think the Austrian Empire would be called? 'Austria' would be too artficially narrow and arbitrary for the German revolutionaries and the rest of the population wouldn't want anything too indicative of Germany.

For a name, how about Autonomist Nations of Danubia? That seems to adequately convey Marxism, consociationalism, and voluntarism.

And here's a map design thanks to The Professor:

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/attachment.php?attachmentid=188143&stc=1&d=1350749635
 
Well, France's help would probably come with strings attached, in Italy as well as the Rhineland. OTL, wasn't the Austrian defence in Veneto more a face-saving measure whereby the Austrians would let the area go after the war in exchange for Silesia and the French not intervening (Nappy III assuming the Austrians would win)?
Yeah, the general public assumption was that in any war between the two was that the Austrian Empire would be the victor over the Kingdom of Prussia. IIRC Napoleon III, who was an idealist when it came to the Italian unification, made the agreement with Austria that in return for not intervening on Prussia's side that Austria would agree to indirectly give Venetia to the Italians. However since Franz Joseph felt the need to fight for the province for honour's sake he wasted men and more importantly good commanders out of pride. All of which was rather silly since not a few years previously the Italians had offered to buy Venetia from the Austrians for a rather large sum with France acting as middleman so as to provide the polite fiction of not selling part of their territory, but that's another point of departure.

Unofficially they may well of also been planning to march troops into the Rhineland to try and stake a claim to the territory on the left bank of the Rhine. They might even have been able to get away with it if Austria tried to absorb too much Prussian territory and appeared to other states to be possibly becoming a continental hegemon.


That and the people seizing power within Austria and helping Austria from the German states wouldn't really care about the Hapsburg's dynastic claims. And the deposed Hapsburgs from Modena and Tuscany might be more content with Rhenish possessions.
That's been the general consensus when Austria winning the Austro-Prussian War threads have come up in the past. Austria reclaims Silesia - or at least Upper Silesia (the south-eastern part) with all the natural resources located in it, the bulk of the Prussian Rhine Province gets split in two to create new states to compensate the Grand Dukes of Modena and Tuscany, the rest goes to Austrian allies, Saxony regains the territory they lost in 1814 - Napoleon III shouldn't mind since it was lost mostly for continuing to support his uncle, Schleswig-Holstein goes to the Duke of Augustenburg - the north possibly back to Denmark, and Hanover maintains their independence. With Silesia in compensation for Venetia, the Rhine Province becoming independent states, and other states either staying the same or picking up small amounts of territory, it nicely kneecaps Prussia whilst at least not directly adding to Austrian power so the other Great Powers should be roughly okay with it or at least not want to object too much. As Erasmus Darwin Keyes mentioned one of the major knock-ons from an Austrian victory will the avoiding the massive loss of prestige they suffered and emboldening the Hungarians, depending on how they play things the Compromise of 1867 and dual monarchy could be butterflied away if for at least a while.
 
Actually, the plan of Austria and its allies in case of a victory would be:

- Austria gains most of Silesia. (The many protestants in Lower and Middle Silesia won't be happy in the Habsburg empire.)
- Saxony, as said, would get what it lost in 1815, plus a bit more.
- Bavaria wanted a part of the Rhineland too.
- Hannover wanted a part of Westphalia.
- Württemberg wanted Hohenzollern.

And would Austria really sell Venetia? I would have guessed that they wanted to take Lombardy back.
 
Actually, the plan of Austria and its allies in case of a victory would be:

- Austria gains most of Silesia. (The many protestants in Lower and Middle Silesia won't be happy in the Habsburg empire.)
- Saxony, as said, would get what it lost in 1815, plus a bit more.
- Bavaria wanted a part of the Rhineland too.
- Hannover wanted a part of Westphalia.
- Württemberg wanted Hohenzollern.

And would Austria really sell Venetia? I would have guessed that they wanted to take Lombardy back.

They did, given half the chance. Significantly, South Army was given twice as much telegraph wire as North Army, which sounds as though they envisaged a campaign deep inside Italy.

In practice, however, I can't see Napoleon III tolerating this. He felt far more strongly about Italy than about Germany, and would surely insist on the Austrians giving up Venetia as promised, and taking German land in lieu of that and of their losses in 1859-60.
 
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