Austria and Switzerland merge after WW1?

After WW1 Austria lacked an identity because before they were basically Germans who were loyal to the Hapsburgs. Austria wanted to merge with Germany but the treaty of St Germain prevented it. I was thinking that maybe instead they could have merged with Switzerland :D

I mean they are both mountainous and Switzerland is majority German speaking. I guess the French and Italian parts might not like to be an even smaller minority but the cantons in Switzerland have a lot of autonomy so it shouldn't effect them too much and they are legally allowed to leave anyway so they can if they want.

I guess the Allies would probably not have expected this and I guess there might be a formal protest. But with their economies in ruins I doubt they would want a war with Switzerland which would be a very hard nut to crack and it would be hard to justify since Austria hasn't broken any treaties.

In fact they might come to support this compromise somewhat because it allows them to be less hypocritical in regards to self determination and I'm sure they would be worried that down the line Germany might end up annexing Austria somehow whereas this keeps it from happening.

I guess Lichtenstein would be in an odd position as it would be a land locked enclave with the surrounding country speaking the same language as it but San Marino manages surrounded by Italy so I guess it should be ok.

I guess the political cultures of the two countries would need to merge somewhat but Austria was now a republic anyway so in theory there should be no insurmountable problems there. And obviously Austria would be broken up into cantons.
 
Last edited:
Also this would make Switzerland a much more important player since it's population and land size would grow far larger.
 
Hmm, and here goes the Neutrality Tradition. Mergeing the two countries would make it hard for Switzerland to keep that, I think.
 
The Austrian state of Vorarlberg held a referendum on joining Switzerland in 1919 and 80% voted in favour. It was blocked by a combination of the Austrian government itself, the Allies and the Swiss (mainly Liberals and French and Italian speakers). I expect that there would be even more opposition to the whole of Austria becoming part of Switzerland.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
The Austrian state of Vorarlberg held a referendum on joining Switzerland in 1919 and 80% voted in favour. It was blocked by a combination of the Austrian government itself, the Allies and the Swiss (mainly Liberals and French and Italian speakers). I expect that there would be even more opposition to the whole of Austria becoming part of Switzerland.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Yeah I've heard of this that's why I tried it the the whole of Austria. I think it might be too tempting for the Swiss to pass up heck even if they lose all the French and Italian speakers it would still be worth it by far. Though if the Allies care enough to put strong economic sanctions on Switzerland that might change their minds. However this does not need to happen right away it could happen in the 20's or 30's by which times the Allies would care less. Basically I just want it to happen eventually not necessarily right away.
 
Yeah I've heard of this that's why I tried it the the whole of Austria. I think it might be too tempting for the Swiss to pass up heck even if they lose all the French and Italian speakers it would still be worth it by far. Though if the Allies care enough to put strong economic sanctions on Switzerland that might change their minds. However this does not need to happen right away it could happen in the 20's or 30's by which times the Allies would care less. Basically I just want it to happen eventually not necessarily right away.

Also in the late 30's with a resurgent Germany looking acquisitively south the Allies might even want Austria to join Switzerland to prevent it falling into German hands. Hence if Hitler wants it he would have to fight Switzerland which at the time Germany was in no shape to do.
 
After WW1 Austria lacked an identity because before they were basically Germans who were loyal to the Hapsburgs. Austria wanted to merge with Germany but the treaty of St Germain prevented it. I was thinking that maybe instead they could have merged with Switzerland :D.

And what would Switzerland gain from it? The inclination of Swiss to accept a merger with an impoverished broke country they don't feel a lot of commonality with is probably even elss pronounced than todays USA's inclination to merge with Mexico.

I mean they are both mountainous and Switzerland is majority German speaking. I guess the French and Italian parts might not like to be an even smaller minority but the cantons in Switzerland have a lot of autonomy so it shouldn't effect them too much and they are legally allowed to leave anyway so they can if they want.

So the Swiss should wreck their country to accept a merger with someone else? Why should they do it?

In fact they might come to support this compromise somewhat because it allows them to be less hypocritical in regards to self determination and I'm sure they would be worried that down the line Germany might end up annexing Austria somehow whereas this keeps it from happening.

IOTL, around 1920 Vorarlberg has asked Switzerland to accept it as a Canton after breaking off from Austria. Austria was so broken at the time that they did not even care beyond a few token protests. Obviously as is the custom in Switzerland the matter was subjected to a referendum. You have exactly one guess at the Swiss referendum result.

I guess Lichtenstein would be in an odd position as it would be a land locked enclave with the surrounding country speaking the same language as it but San Marino manages surrounded by Italy so I guess it should be ok.

Lichtenstein is de facto locked inside Switzerland already as the Austrian border is pretty much impassable. This is the smallest issue in your proposition.

I guess the political cultures of the two countries would need to merge somewhat but Austria was now a republic anyway so in theory there should be no insurmountable problems there. And obviously Austria would be broken up into cantons.

If we take your argumentation as it stands, USA and Russia are both republics with strong presidential office, so in theory there should not be any insurmountable difficulties in merging USA and Russia.
 
Yeah I've heard of this that's why I tried it the the whole of Austria. I think it might be too tempting for the Swiss to pass up heck even if they lose all the French and Italian speakers it would still be worth it by far. Though if the Allies care enough to put strong economic sanctions on Switzerland that might change their minds. However this does not need to happen right away it could happen in the 20's or 30's by which times the Allies would care less. Basically I just want it to happen eventually not necessarily right away.

OK, I guess you have never been to Switzerland or talked to any Swiss. Switzerland is not 19th Century America. They do NOT look for expansion of any sort. The tripartite (Ok, now quadripartite with the Rhaeto-Romanians) nature of the country is Switzerland's core identity to most Swiss. You can just as well ask USA to abandon the Constitution and the underlying traditions in order to have a go at incorportating Mexico.
 
And what would Switzerland gain from it? The inclination of Swiss to accept a merger with an impoverished broke country they don't feel a lot of commonality with is probably even elss pronounced than todays USA's inclination to merge with Mexico.



So the Swiss should wreck their country to accept a merger with someone else? Why should they do it?



IOTL, around 1920 Vorarlberg has asked Switzerland to accept it as a Canton after breaking off from Austria. Austria was so broken at the time that they did not even care beyond a few token protests. Obviously as is the custom in Switzerland the matter was subjected to a referendum. You have exactly one guess at the Swiss referendum result.



Lichtenstein is de facto locked inside Switzerland already as the Austrian border is pretty much impassable. This is the smallest issue in your proposition.



If we take your argumentation as it stands, USA and Russia are both republics with strong presidential office, so in theory there should not be any insurmountable difficulties in merging USA and Russia.

If the Swiss are thinking long even medium term they would realise that they are not wreaking their country. Of course it would take some ambitious politicians on both sides to make it happen. And come on you're comparing Mexico and Russia merging with the US to Switzerland merging with Austria! Switzerland and Austria have much more in common (the same language and ethnicity for one thing) where as Russia and Mexico are to say the least very different to the US I don't really have to explain this further do I?
 
Look guys I'm not saying this is likely to happen (after all it didn't happen in OTL) I know the Swiss are insular thinking which is why it would take some exceptionally visionary politicians to make it happen.
 
Hmm, and here goes the Neutrality Tradition. Mergeing the two countries would make it hard for Switzerland to keep that, I think.


Why? Would the Austrians have any problem about being neutral?

My own guess is that religion might be a bigger problem. Austria was/is virtually 100% Catholic, so that Swiss Protestants would be swamped in the united country. They might accept Vorarlberg or even Tyrol, but I can't see them going much further han that.
 
Why? Would the Austrians have any problem about being neutral?

My own guess is that religion might be a bigger problem. Austria was/is virtually 100% Catholic, so that Swiss Protestants would be swamped in the united country. They might accept Vorarlberg or even Tyrol, but I can't see them going much further han that.

Austria was not a rosy place after ww1, lots of veterans, right wingers e.t.c. I was thinking along the lines that Austria can pull Switzerland down the road.
 
Switzerland and Austria have much more in common (the same language and ethnicity for one thing)

If you ask a Swiss about his/her ethnicity, the answer will be in a vast majority of all cases "swiss", not "german". Ethnicity is a matter of self-definition. Yes, both Austrian German and the multitude of the Swiss-German dialects are a part of the German language continuum, but so is Dutch.
The political cultures of both countries especially in 1918 are so vastly different that Russia/Mexico comparison is not excessive. And to top it all, the founding myth of Switzerland is fighting... wait, who was it.. ah yes, some insignificant royal house called Habsburg.

where as Russia and Mexico are to say the least very different to the US I don't really have to explain this further do I?

Since you seem to not be aware of political culture differences between 1918 Switzerland and 1918 Austria, you may want to explain it further to get a meaningful comparison.
 
Look guys I'm not saying this is likely to happen (after all it didn't happen in OTL) I know the Swiss are insular thinking which is why it would take some exceptionally visionary politicians to make it happen.

You still haven't explained the advantage of such a step over keeping the status quo for Switzerland. In my eyes, it has nothing with insularity and everything with democratic accountability. For Austria, such a step would indeed be a major improvement.
 
Yeah I've heard of this that's why I tried it the the whole of Austria. I think it might be too tempting for the Swiss to pass up heck even if they lose all the French and Italian speakers it would still be worth it by far. Though if the Allies care enough to put strong economic sanctions on Switzerland that might change their minds. However this does not need to happen right away it could happen in the 20's or 30's by which times the Allies would care less. Basically I just want it to happen eventually not necessarily right away.

Also in the late 30's with a resurgent Germany looking acquisitively south the Allies might even want Austria to join Switzerland to prevent it falling into German hands. Hence if Hitler wants it he would have to fight Switzerland which at the time Germany was in no shape to do.

It also sounds like very good reasons why Switzerland wouldn't want to merge with Austria. They'd be alienating a large proportion of their own people and taking on a large number of Austrians who actively (and violently) wanted to be part of Germany.

Cheers,
Nigel.
 
Not to mention the entire existence of Switzerland was precipitated by rebellion and war against the Habsburgs in Vienna.
 
If you ask a Swiss about his/her ethnicity, the answer will be in a vast majority of all cases "swiss", not "german". Ethnicity is a matter of self-definition. Yes, both Austrian German and the multitude of the Swiss-German dialects are a part of the German language continuum, but so is Dutch.
The political cultures of both countries especially in 1918 are so vastly different that Russia/Mexico comparison is not excessive. And to top it all, the founding myth of Switzerland is fighting... wait, who was it.. ah yes, some insignificant royal house called Habsburg.



Since you seem to not be aware of political culture differences between 1918 Switzerland and 1918 Austria, you may want to explain it further to get a meaningful comparison.

Most Swiss identified with their canton the Pan-Swiss federal identity is quite recent. There are still strong regional identities. Austria was a new state forcibly turned into a republic it was in many ways searching for identity it should not be too hard to adopt a Swiss political culture. the "fighting the Hapsburgs" identity might even fit into merging with Austria because the Hapsburgs have been defeated.

As for the Dutch I honestly wish they had been part of Germany:D like in Decades of Darkness. In many ways their separation is based on an artificial barriers. Many Dutch will admit in private that they are basically Germans "who got away". The lost tribe. Some even think a modern Germanic union would be better then the EU with the Thaler as a currency.

Also enlargement appears not quite foreign to the Swiss mindset
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_Switzerland

Anyway I was just running this idea to see how possible this was I think it would be kind of cool to have an Alpine South German country and so wanted to discuss it. I'm thankful for the feedback from everyone.
 
It also sounds like very good reasons why Switzerland wouldn't want to merge with Austria. They'd be alienating a large proportion of their own people and taking on a large number of Austrians who actively (and violently) wanted to be part of Germany.

Cheers,
Nigel.

Yeah they did want to be part of Germany. I was thinking they might settle for this as a compromise.

Actually I found this thread since then I should have just posted in that since the topics are related.

https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=252556
 
Top