Australia becomes an Empire?

With Australia practically rulling an entire continent, and isolated in an island, what is the possibility of it evolving into an over-seas empire like Japan and becoming a real force to reckon?
 

Susano

Banned
Well, if the British Empire stayed closer together, Australia would be part of an Empire at least :D Though I heard thats the same reason New Zealand also kept distant to Australia, with visions of reproducing GBs success as island-based empire...

Well, Australia has a bit fewer inhabitants than Japan. And certainnly not as much historically grown infrastructure. Now, there could maybe be more immigration, but from where? Also, its always said Australia cant endure much mroe people, what with water and all. Im not so sure though - that may b right for the central desert, but the eastern seaboard could certainly be pushed up to European populationd ensity numbers, couldnt it? But yes, as said, the settlers/immigrants need to come from somewhere...

Of course, technically Australia can become an Empire simply by having an Emperor :D
 
Now, there could maybe be more immigration, but from where?

Europe (make other OTL immigration countries (USA, Argentina and other) less attractive), India, China etc..

Also, its always said Australia cant endure much mroe people, what with water and all. Im not so sure though - that may b right for the central desert, but the eastern seaboard could certainly be pushed up to European populationd ensity numbers, couldnt it? But yes, as said, the settlers/immigrants need to come from somewhere...

The humid (at least by australian conditions) OTL North-Australia ist quite underpopulated.

Of course, technically Australia can become an Empire simply by having an Emperor :D

Government type: democratic, parliamentary monarchy
Note: The monarch of Australia is also sovereign of the RESTORED EMPIRE, but within Australia’s jurisdiction functions only as a monarch.
Quote from DoD Interlude #1
 
Australia couldn't support too many more people with current technology levels.
Desaltinisation needs advancing quite a bit.
Where immigrants could come from...well anywhere. Lots of Brits want to move there and then you'll have people bighting your hands off for the chance to do so all over Asia and in Africa.


Anyway, Australia did become a empire IOTL didn't it? It was given managment of New Guinea and a lot of little islands.
 

Susano

Banned
Australia couldn't support too many more people with current technology levels.
Desaltinisation needs advancing quite a bit.
As said, I dontr eally buy that. Sure, there cnt be much moe peopel venturing into the central parts anymore, but the seaboard is far removed from European population density levels, and climatically isnt it rather European, too?

Where immigrants could come from...well anywhere. Lots of Brits want to move there and then you'll have people bighting your hands off for the chance to do so all over Asia and in Africa.
But Australia would need to surely triple its population to become a great power! I dont think Britain, or even European immigration in general is enough. Yes, it woud take Asian immigration, but given 19th century mindsets thats rather improbable back then - and we would have to give the Australian Empire some time to unfold.

Anyway, Australia did become a empire IOTL didn't it? It was given managment of New Guinea and a lot of little islands.
It had a small colonial empire, yeah, but I dunno if that should count.
 
As said, I dontr eally buy that. Sure, there cnt be much moe peopel venturing into the central parts anymore, but the seaboard is far removed from European population density levels, and climatically isnt it rather European, too?


But Australia would need to surely triple its population to become a great power! I dont think Britain, or even European immigration in general is enough. Yes, it woud take Asian immigration, but given 19th century mindsets thats rather improbable back then - and we would have to give the Australian Empire some time to unfold.


It had a small colonial empire, yeah, but I dunno if that should count.
The trouble is that even with just 21 million people, we are having a lot of trouble with water now.
 
Australian soils are spectacularly shallow and poor, due to minimal vulcanism and no land folding in over 50 million years. Plus it has very little surface water. The Australian Conservation Foundation put out that the sustainable population of Australia over the long-term is eight million; we currently have twenty-one and a crisis in our ecology.

You might be able to get a Bronze Age empire among the Aboriginal peoples if somehow rice makes its way far enough south to get past the unsuitable soils. Earlier arrivals of pigs, chickens, et al, might help too. But whatever empire you build will probably not be sustainable in the long term.
 
ooohhhhh a whole lot of issues here...

OK possible POD. In the OTL the ALP governments of Curtin &, to a lessor extent, Chifley did have a de facto policy, especially in the immediate aftermath of WWII, to carve out an empire in the Pacific & South-East Asia region. This would be administered in partnership with NZ. There is no particular list of territories, but various part of Indonesia would have been included along with New Guinea, East Timor, & various islands possibly including Fiji. But, with the death of Curtin, along with Chifley's domestic policy failures, any thoughts of such an empire were soon forgotten.

As for Australian soils - the problem isn't that they are poor. The real problem has been the poor selection of crops planted here. Australia, generally, has soil with low levels of phospherous. Yet farmers, until some 25 years ago, were ignorant of this fact. So traditional European cash crops, like wheat, barley, etc, have been grown but large amounts of fertiliser has always been required leading to very poor land management. Hence we get this Australia's soil is poor routine. What was always really required were crops that don't need large amounts of phospherous &/or can be adopted with better farming management practices. Needless to say, this has been a priority for the last 20 - 30 years, not to mention some introduced cash crops, like rice, cotton, grapes, have been successful.

As for population levels - yes it is linked with water sources, but Australia has, until resently, wasted these water resources at criminal levels to be quite frank. Plus we're extremely reluctant to use recycled water, whilst many other nations, including European ones, use this practice all the time. We've also become extremely reluctant to develop new water resources, in other words dams & irriation systems (regardless they be hi-tech), because the environmental lobby groups here go apeshit & local communities don't want it in their backyard. Needless to say, this effects voting patterns & governments wish to avoid being thrown out of office. But if better water management took place, along with a signifcant increase in water infrastructure, Australia wouldn't have water shortages even if we're the driest country on the planet. Consequentially, I'd dare say a population level that's double that of our current one of 21 million, could comfortably live in Australia enjoying the same standard of living as is currently the case. And that's not including the usage of any desalination plants.
 
DMA, do you think that it might be possible for an Agricultural Revolution on the Australian continent prior to European contact, thus resulting in an "Empire"? I am trying to think of a timeline along these lines:

The domestic pig arrives in Australia around 3500 BCE, runs feral, makes it way across the continent, is redomesticated in other parts of the country.

By 2000 BCE, there is evidence of rice growing in ? and the introduction of chickens. By 1000 BCE, growing oranges with water buffalo and oxen being used for agriculture. Also in this era, emerges the first use of bronze, whether home-grown or imported tech unclear.

First writing appears around the beginning of the common era and, by the time of European arrival, we have a number of allied Aboriginal kingdoms of a feudalistic era, with still a type of understanding of common links to the land - era of the commons?

Your thoughts?

EDIT: Maybe soybeans and sugarcane too?
 
Excellent approach LacheyS. But to me it's not about the introduction of foreign food stuffs, afterall there's plenty of Australian foods to eat whether it be kangaroos, emus, possums, & goodness knows whatever else, not to mention crops foods igrnored by the first Europeans, but now accepted to one dergee or another. And importantly all of this has a minimal impact upon the local environment.

Needless to say, & I'll admit proudly, I have written about this (albeit I'll humbly admit my ignorance about numerous specifics at the same time :eek:). But to me it's all about a political revolution. In other words various Aboriginal tribes had to get together into a " United Kingdom" for whatever reason. Once that had been achieved, well the world could have been a very different place IMHO...
 
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With Australia practically rulling an entire continent, and isolated in an island, what is the possibility of it evolving into an over-seas empire like Japan and becoming a real force to reckon?

Well, for an empire you need n emperor and Asutralai doesn't have that. It can't be a kingdom because it doesn't have a king. It can be said it's a big country though. :cool:
 
Well, for an empire you need n emperor and Asutralai doesn't have that. It can't be a kingdom because it doesn't have a king. It can be said it's a big country though. :cool:

Technically speaking we do have a Monarch - Elizabeth II, Queen of Australia, as Constituted by the Australia Act 1986
 
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