Australia Automotive WI - WA Kingswood

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
The POD is that Holden in the late 1970's does not introduce the Commodore which was based off the based loosely on the four-cylinder Opel Rekord bodyshell with the front grafted on from the Opel Senator A. Instead they release the full-size WA Kingswood in 1978, which would have looked like this.

holden-wa-kingswood-prototype.jpg


I am guessing the next generation of the Holden Kingswood would be styled like the 1995-1996 Chevrolet Impala/Caprice

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Well in this TL Holden maintain's it's Australian car market dominance which it lost to Ford in OTL during the 1980's. Also Holden's straight 6 motor would with modifications still be manufactured into the 2000's, instead of being replaced by a Buick V6 when Holden Commodore was launched.

I don't know where it would leave Ford in this TL, they would probably have the same position in the 1980's they had in the 1970's, I am guessing. Although the Australian automotive market would still be dominated by full size cars with either straight-six or v8 engines into the 1990's and 2000's. Both companies producing crossover variants of both cars is highly probable in the 2000's in order to meet to increase in demand for SUV's.
 
Does the Holden Straight-Six undergo similar development to what Ford Australia's OTL Straight-6 did in featuring SOHC and later becoming the Ford Barra 6-cylinder engine?

It would have been interesting seeing the Holden Straight-Six influenced by elements from the Pontiac OHC-6 and being enlarged to around 4-litres though it seems Holden had little to no inclination to go down that route in OTL.

[URL='https://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/1611/celebrating-the-holden-red-motor-six']https://www.streetmachine.com.au/features/1611/celebrating-the-holden-red-motor-six

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The Red motor evolved into the Blue Motor in about 1982 with a 12 port head then the Black Motor with an EFI option.

The Ford engine got a crossflow head in 1976, went to a 2bbl carb in 1982 and an alloy head in 1983. The OHC 3.9l for the EA was a new engine.
 
that second chevy design looks genuinly worse than even the mid 90's commodore or falcon which is saying something.

As for maintaining their dominance, they'd have to stay good in the 90's and 2000's and remain somewhat comparable against the foreign cars (meaning they can't have commodores and falcons starting in the low to mid 30k price range) and somehow figure out how to make sure they don't go down 10k as soon as you drive out of a dealership, unless we introduce massive tarrifs against foreign car imports.

I think Holden and Ford for that matter would have to expand their horizons to compete, they could probably outlast your average family sedans out of japan (i.e. Toyota, Mazda and Honda) but what about the european luxury cars, they have no answer.

Also both would need better cars at the top end (luxury) as well as better hatchback options made here (maybe the focus gets made in Australia and the Barina and Astra are made here also).
 
The Red motor evolved into the Blue Motor in about 1982 with a 12 port head then the Black Motor with an EFI option.

The Ford engine got a crossflow head in 1976, went to a 2bbl carb in 1982 and an alloy head in 1983. The OHC 3.9l for the EA was a new engine.

Did Holden investigate other developments for the Holden Straight-Six that never reached production? 12-port head and EFI aside, it is difficult to believe Holden allowed it to wither on the vine in the face of increased competition against rivals from Ford and others including Chrysler Australia with their Hemi-6 engine?
 

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
that second Chevy design looks genuinely worse than even the mid 90's commodore or falcon which is saying something.

It is only an approximation, I suspect the body would be very similar to the VN Commodore.

As for maintaining their dominance, they'd have to stay good in the 90's and 2000's and remain somewhat comparable against the foreign cars (meaning they can't have commodores and falcons starting in the low to mid 30k price range) and somehow figure out how to make sure they don't go down 10k as soon as you drive out of a dealership, unless we introduce massive tarrifs against foreign car imports.

I think Holden and Ford for that matter would have to expand their horizons to compete, they could probably outlast your average family sedans out of japan (i.e. Toyota, Mazda and Honda) but what about the european luxury cars, they have no answer.

Also both would need better cars at the top end (luxury) as well as better hatchback options made here (maybe the focus gets made in Australia and the Barina and Astra are made here also).

I believe Ford might go down the path of making smaller cars, Project Capricorn which would have made the Falcon into a FWD car on a stretched Mazda 626 wheelbase might actually be produced in this TL.

a9c9cb430fa0372dea195db64134a142.jpg


However I believe the Australian car industry would go down the same path as it did in OTL. Which would have required government assistance in order to keep it alive. However if Australian car manufacturing eventually went down the path I have outlined, then it could have still be a substantial export industry. Therefore governments would be more likely to continue industry assistance as a way of keeping an reasonably important export industry going. Assistance to the automotive industry in someway or another occurs in practically every nation that manufactures automobiles.

I believe in this TL by the 2010's there would be Holden, Ford and Toyota manufacturing cars in Australia. However they would be manufacturing the Mondeo, A Holden based on the Opel Insignia and the Toyota Camry. All would be front wheel drive with an all wheel drive option. Plus there would be likely crossover variants of all those vehicles (which would be reasonably popular in the domestic market), These cars would be exported to to the Middle East, South East, perhaps South Asia and some of Africa. Also they would be heavily represented in government and corporate fleets in Australia, due to likely preferential tax treatments.

I can seriously see Australian car manufacturers adopting four wheel drive as an alternative option along front wheel drive. I remember I could be wrong that the Mitsubishi 380 in OTL had an all wheel drive option. Overall I see Australia's advantage in the global automotive industry was producing larger cars with crossover and all-wheel drive variants.
 
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Did Holden investigate other developments for the Holden Straight-Six that never reached production? 12-port head and EFI aside, it is difficult to believe Holden allowed it to wither on the vine in the face of increased competition against rivals from Ford and others including Chrysler Australia with their Hemi-6 engine?

I don't know but there was some weird things happening in terms of export credits which meant that Holden could get the Nissan I6 then the Buick V6 rather than spending resources to develop a new engine themselves.
 
I don't know but there was some weird things happening in terms of export credits which meant that Holden could get the Nissan I6 then the Buick V6 rather than spending resources to develop a new engine themselves.

It seems aftermarket Stroker kits were able to increase the Holden Straight-Six's displacement from 202 cubic inches / 3.3-ltires to around 235 cubic inches / 3.85-litres and 250 cubic inches / 4.1-litres though it is a pity Holden themselves never considered it along with an OHC conversion, prior to a Barra-style redevelopment of the Straight-Six.

An ATL 4.1-litre version of the 142 hp 3.3-litre Black EFI should theoretically put out around 176 hp.

Holden could have also theoretically developed a 3.1-3.8-litre 90-degree V6 from the Holden V8, though it would have probably been similar to the 90-degree Buick V8
 
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The Ford 221 crank fits into the red motor with a bit of maching, but the standard 202 crank can be knife-edge machined to get similar power so the stroker wasn't particularly common iirc.
 
The biggest obstacle to overcome (which is the same as OTL) is the Button Plan. That was the killer of the Aussie automotive industry which started the downhill run.
 
An ATL 4.1-litre version of the 142 hp 3.3-litre Black EFI should theoretically put out around 176 hp.

I doubt you'd get a Holden 6 to 4.1 litres successfully, even the 221 crank and aftermarket strokers of 235-238 inches needed different rods and pistons for stroke to rod length ratio, rod offsets and other engineering shit. For Holden to build a factory version of this, and be able to warranty it and have it run for 400,000km, would require a lot of bottom end work as well as a new 12 port head, which comes off the bottom line. However the change from Red to Blue motor in 1980 would be the perfect time to do it, if Holden could come up with solutions to things like short rods.
 
I doubt you'd get a Holden 6 to 4.1 litres successfully, even the 221 crank and aftermarket strokers of 235-238 inches needed different rods and pistons for stroke to rod length ratio, rod offsets and other engineering shit. For Holden to build a factory version of this, and be able to warranty it and have it run for 400,000km, would require a lot of bottom end work as well as a new 12 port head, which comes off the bottom line. However the change from Red to Blue motor in 1980 would be the perfect time to do it, if Holden could come up with solutions to things like short rods.

Assuming the ATL Blue and Black engines are able to be successfully enlarged to 4-litres and feature other upgrades (including OHC / DOHC), what would have been a plausibly increased displacement of the Red engine beyond 202 cubic inches / 3.3-litres?
 
Just curious, what is the bore spacing on the Holden I6. Is it in the rang of the Chevy I6 or more down around 100mm. The Chevy could easily be opened up to 300ci/5 liters depending on the deck height. The bore spacing is the same as the small block V8. Plus if Aussie hot hodders are looking for a bigger displacement I6 in this time frame the Ramblers being assembled in Port Melbourne are up to 3.8 (232) or 4.2 (258) starting in the mid 60s (70 for the 258). Same bore center as the Ford small block so that leaves room for the creative. Something that used to be fairtly common amongst hot rodders. Today it seems that everything is just ordered out of a catalog.

A well designed I6 is and can be marvelous piece of automotive technology. The BMWs, Nissan's, Toyotas and Jag come to mind. Unfortunately the pushrod I6's all seem to feature non-cross flow heads. Plus in the US as they tended to be base engines more geared to economy of operation and more importantly manufacture, they tended to get saddled with some of the worst abortions of intake systems that one could imagine. Log style intake manifolds cast into the head with anemic single throat carburators. In the land of the V8 the inline six was the red headed stepchild.
 
Stroking 6 cylinders was a 60s thing that was given a lease of life in the 70s when Holden decided to move away from the Monaro to the Torana for racing in 1970-73 and was mainly because V8s were not sold in Australia until 1966 and made in Australia until 1969. Once the 253/308 was built in Australia from 1969 and the Ford Clevo 302/351 from 1974 the imperative to get big cubes out of Holden 6's pretty much vanished; the 4.2l V8 was Holden's engine of choice while the bigger Fords used the 302 Clevo.

The biggest lost opportunity was not taking the Holden V8 out to more than 308, it was designed to go to 350 but this wasn't done until 1996.
 
Was the Holden V8 originally intended to displace 4.2-litres at minimum or were smaller de-bored variants initially considered?

Perhaps the Red engine could stretch to around 3.5-3.6-litres, with the Blue/Black units receiving enough development to displace 4-litres.
 
The 253 and 308 were released simultaneously, rather than one being a development of the other.

As for 6s, I think the 202 was the largest reasonable size for the Holden 6, given that it didn't get any bigger from 1971 through to 1986 despite the development of the blue and black variations. Things like rod length were the limitations.
 
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