August, 1945 Soviets in Japan

[Cryptic]

Cryptic, that the percentage of Japanese regulars surrendering on Okinawa was a tiny fraction of the total was an extremely bad sign and the fact that more than 80% of the Japanese militia died fighting, with a majority of the prisoners first becoming casualties, was hardly reassuring. Then there was the death toll among the civilian population...

Okinawa was the start of a pattern That 20% militia urrender rate was far higher than the historical rate and it then climbed higher (possibly much higher) when the Soviets invaded Manchuria, Korea and the Kuriles.

Please dont get me wrong, in August 1945 there were many Japanese units still willing to fight to the death (elite Imperial Guards, long standing regular units and even highly indoctrinated militia units). These, however, were concentrated on Kyushu and Honshu or stranded over seas.

A Soviet landing on Hokkiado would be against second sting garrison units and third string militia units. The Soviet forces may well of seen a mixed Japanese response of some "to the death stands", others units surrendering after resistance and still other units simply melting into the interior.

 

[Grimm Reaper]

Cryptic, the fact that the first encounter with Japanese militia on Japanese soil led to more than 90% of the militia being killed or injured and more than 40% of the women, children and elderly dying could not be considered even slightly reassuring.

 

[Cryptic]

Cryptic, the fact that the first encounter with Japanese militia on Japanese soil led to more than 90% of the militia being killed or injured and more than 40% of the women, children and elderly dying could not be considered even slightly reassuring.

If the vast magority of Japanese military and civilians were eager to die rather than surrender, then the 1945 coup attempt would have succeeded. You are ignoring the second and third encounters on Japanese soil. The Japanese death rate for both troops and civilians were declining.

Also, a certain number of the Okinawan civilians were killed either directly or indirectly by Japanese troops. Most Japanese troops would be far more reluctant to engage in actions that would lead to needless deaths of Japanese civilians.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

If the vast magority of Japanese military and civilians were eager to die rather than surrender, then the 1945 coup attempt would have succeeded.

Too nitpick on this point: the coup was defeated because the general who crushed it felt he was maintaining his loyalty to the Emperor through the chain-of-command, not because he felt the war should end. He actually thought the opposite, but he respected the chain-of-command and when Anami didn't throw in either way he decided to go with the Emperor's wishes.

Theoretically, the coup could of succeeded if that general had thought differently... or perhaps if someone more sympathetic to the plotters was in charge.

You are correct though, in August '45 there were signs of dissent starting to appear in even the regular army units. Only the Imperial Guard units had not begun to show any war fatigue. Surrenders on Okinawa were higher then in other campaigns, although proportionally still out of whack.

 

[Cryptic]

You are correct though, in August '45 there were signs of dissent starting to appear in even the regular army units. Only the Imperial Guard units had not begun to show any war fatigue.

Thanks for the support.

There were signs of war fatigue in the population as well. The PBS show American Experience, the Pacific War, related that the Imperial motorcade was met with open disrespect (well... at least by Japanese standards) when the Emperor viewed the Tokyo Fire raid areas.

As a side note, I have also read an account of a shipyard technician on Shinamo (crew hastily conscripted / badly trained late in the war) who wrote of seeing defiant writings in the enlisted quarters on the ship.

 

[John Farson]

Thanks for the support.

There were signs of war fatigue in the population as well. The PBS show American Experience, the Pacific War, related that the Imperial motorcade was met with open disrespect (well... at least by Japanese standards) when the Emperor viewed the Tokyo Fire raid areas.

As a side note, I have also read an account of a shipyard technician on Shinamo (crew hastily conscripted / badly trained late in the war) who wrote of seeing defiant writings in the enlisted quarters on the ship.

Barefoot Gen (both manga and anime) also shows war fatigue among the populace. The focus is on the title character's family (especially his father, who has long since seen the writing on the wall and says so publically during a spear drill), but a few other people are also shown to be tired of the war and just wanting it to end. From the manga, I recall a window repairman who lost one of his legs in China and whose business is on the verge of ruin. He also lost his only son in the war. Then there's a couple of Kamikaze pilots who know that their sacrifices will be in vain. Then there was also a naval cadet who was driven to suicide by his sadistic drill sergeant.

However, the manga also shows that to the very last days of the war there was heavy repression by the authorities against any form of anti-war sentiment. Gen's father is arrested and tortured by the police, his family ends up ostracised thanks to the local fanatical block chairman (who ironically becomes a pro-American stooge after the war), his eldest brother is interrogated (and tortured) by a member of the Kempeitai and his sister is falsely accused of theft at school and is forced to strip and be humiliated in front of her (male) teachers. So yes, though there was war weariness, it was kept pretty well in check. Though I daresay that had the war gone on, opposition would have steadily grown, if for nothing else then because they were gradually running out of food...

 

[The Vulture]

I'm going to have to question the use of anime as a historical source.

 

[Macragge1]

I'm going to have to question the use of anime as a historical source.

Seconded. fillllllllllll

 

[Sumeragi]

I'm going to have to question the use of anime as a historical source.

Seconded. fillllllllllll

Except that Barefoot Gen is perhaps one of the best portrayal of August 1945 of any medium, based on the author's personal experience. It was so accurate that ultranationalists, wishing to show only idealistic views of that particular era, pressured the first publisher to stop serialization. Just because one has a not-so-accurate view of anime doesn't mean one can just lumo masterpieces with the regular consumer goods.

 

[John Farson]

I'm going to have to question the use of anime as a historical source.

I didn't intend it to be interpreted as such, it's one guy's view (the author) on the whole thing. To be sure, it has a lot of aspects that seem a little... contrived, but to use one example, brutality within the Japanese military was a real issue. The superiors would beat on their subordinates, who would beat on their subordinates, and on and on until the rank and file got the shit beaten out of them. It's thought to be one reason why the soldiers of the IJA were so brutal towards the local populace and POWs in the occupied territories; they were the lowest on the totem pole, except the local civilians and POWs were even lower than they were, so they were fair game.

 

[ObssesedNuker]

Based on the trend of growing dissent and decline of food production, I think Japan would likely be looking at popular revolt by the winter of 1945 had the war kept going.

By that point, though, Operation Olympic was scheduled to be under way and the Soviets would already have invaded Hokkaido.

 

[Warsie]

Thanks for the support.

There were signs of war fatigue in the population as well. The PBS show American Experience, the Pacific War, related that the Imperial motorcade was met with open disrespect (well... at least by Japanese standards) when the Emperor viewed the Tokyo Fire raid areas.

As a side note, I have also read an account of a shipyard technician on Shinamo (crew hastily conscripted / badly trained late in the war) who wrote of seeing defiant writings in the enlisted quarters on the ship.

How disrespectful? No honorifics used to address the emperor? Turning their backs on him? What?

 

[Cryptic]

How disrespectful? No honorifics used to address the emperor? Turning their backs on him? What?

Evidently, a certain number of people on the route did not bow and turned their backs (or more likely, they were suddenly "distracted" and "failed to notice" the motorcade and thus did not "see" the imperial insignia and thus could not bow etc.). In either case, that kind of defiance is severe by Japanese standards.