Atomic Japan

I recently saw a documentary about the Japanese Nuclear Program and i was thinking what if the Japanese Military had invested in the program enough so that when War seems to be lost the Emperor orders the destruction of an American held city such as Manila and brings peace to Asia. This is basically the idea that there is no V-J Day and the Americans are forced to recognize pre-war borders with Japan. How does this effect the World? I envision a three way Cold War with the Japnese,Soviets and the Americans. Thoughts, comments or is this total ASB? If it is such i apologize profusely.
 
Hate to say it, but the History (read: Hitler) Channel isn't where you should be getting your information. The Japanese nuclear program was so far behind that of even the French in 1939 that it's impossible for them to develop a nuclear weapon by 1945 unless they devote every iota of industrial capacity -- including that used to fight the war -- toward that goal. Even then, it's an impossible goal due to the fact that Japan lacks the critical raw materials needed for a bomb program. There aren't any sources of uranium available, nor are sufficient quantities of ultra-pure materials available.

Frankly, it took every bit of Japanese industrial know-how to get that country even in position to fight a war with the United States and Great Britain. From 1854 to 1939, no country in the world had risen as far or as fast as Japan. But while their technological and industrial base was deep -- close technologically to the West -- it wasn't broad -- capable of producing as much or of a quality high enough.
 
Japan is doomed and has been doomed since 1941. The Japanese exploding an A-bomb in Manila won't end the war, but will guarantee that there may be additional cities that get hit by a-bombs. Immediately there would be a greater drive to seize the islands necessary to subject the Japanese Home Islands to intense aerial bombing.

The only pre-war borders the Japanese will ever get will be those of the Home Islands.
 
Well thanks for being Frank with me. I just wanted an axis power to survive that wasnt those annoying Nazis.

The Japanese can survive… but they can't attack the United States.

They could go into Russia… but they'd get their asses kicked.

They can stay involved in China… but it's not worth it and was never worth it.

Finally, they can carefully avoid American holdings and only pick up European colonial stuff… but that leaves the Philippine's astride their supply lines.


From a strategic perspective all of Japan's options sucked and the best one (IMO)—pulling out of China to get the Americans to keep trading with them and then seizing Indo-China and the Dutch East Indies was unacceptable (too much loss of face from leaving China).
 
Axis power that survives, eh? Well have you ever heard the saying "If Italy is on the same side as they were at the beginning of the war until the end then that means they changed sides twice"? Well what if Il Duce is much more clever person and happens to be able to drop out are even switch sides and in the end wins pretty big with lots of American Marshall aid. Or maybe Franco officially joins the Axis. Does extremely poorly against Gibraltar and mainly fights bloody wars across the Pyranees but for the most part is ignored by the Allies, who simply continue their Germany first policy. Or most pathetic of all. Salazar goe a little mad and joins the Axis, but once again nobody cares.
 
Axis power that survives, eh? Well have you ever heard the saying "If Italy is on the same side as they were at the beginning of the war until the end then that means they changed sides twice"? Well what if Il Duce is much more clever person and happens to be able to drop out are even switch sides and in the end wins pretty big with lots of American Marshall aid. Or maybe Franco officially joins the Axis. Does extremely poorly against Gibraltar and mainly fights bloody wars across the Pyranees but for the most part is ignored by the Allies, who simply continue their Germany first policy. Or most pathetic of all. Salazar goe a little mad and joins the Axis, but once again nobody cares.

All good scenarios but The Franco and Salazar bits are ...eh. But Allied and Neutral Italy is a big theme.
 
Even the collective economy of the so-called 'Greater Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' (Empire of Japan) was insufficient to sustain an atomic bomb program in the 1940's. Japan's industrial output was even less than France's would have been if she had stayed in the fight. So building a bomb would require her to divert resources from nearly all her other arms industries over a very long period of time. So Japan would be forced to reverse her aggressive foreign policy to avoid American intervention and also spend years building a bomb and delivery system without arousing American suspiscion. Good luck with that, and besides, without her Empire the oil embargo will cripple her long before the B-29s come along.
 

burmafrd

Banned
The japanese engine technology was way far behind just about everyone elses. That is why they built their aircraft so light- they were all under powered. So even if they built the bomb, how do they deliver it?
 
The problem is even curretnly with Japans status as a "De Facto" Nuclear power (They could build a bomb VERY quickly if they needed to), it needed lots of American help to get to the De Facto stage.

In the 1940's they would need major outside help to get the bomb or someone to accidently deliver a fully functional device to them on a plate both so unlikely at the time they verge on ASB.

But if the Anglo-Japan Naval Treaty never ends, relations between Japan and Britain don't decline and no WW2 takes place, it might be extended to nuclear weapons. So we get at joint Anglo-Japan Nuclear program from the 40's onwards.
 
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