On the topic of the CSA being the cool bad guys, it might work in TL-191, where Featherston's regime manages to get nukes first and deliberately tries to kill a third of its population as it's losing the war. The fact that they're so close to Americans might be a selling point. They're a shadow archetype of what Americans see themselves as, so it's an easy way to discomfort the audience. Of course, this does kill the silliness aspect....
ATL "cool bad guys" in lieu of Nazis?
- Thread starter Alkahest
- Start date
In Europe, there are some B-movies where Arabs are portrayed with the old Jewish stereotype... I am aware that Hollywood has used Arab Muslims as villains often, but as far as I know, not with the old anti-semitic panoplia... At least, I cannot remember any such movie.
Where they played to be silly? I haven't looked at any of TL-191 after the Great War era. I thought Turtledove wrote them to be series.
Also what do you mean by "They're a shadow archetype of what Americans see themselves as"?
Ah I though you meant OTL Americans. From my experience most of us think we are nothing but all of the above.
Had WW3 happened in the late 40s or early 50s with say 10-20 million dead, but no victory for either side and and a continued Cold War it would have created a much much more hateful Cold War for both sides and much more sympathy for Germans as they would have just lost another large part of their population.
I suspect in such a TL that Hollywood would totally give into governmental pressure and public pressure to focus on 'the Red Horde' instead of the Nazis and for those who think WW2 Germany was white washed for Cold War reasons in OTL it would be as nothing compared to what would have happened in such a timeline and thus the Red Army and the NKVD become the West's super villains for the rest of the 20th century.
I suspect in such a TL that Hollywood would totally give into governmental pressure and public pressure to focus on 'the Red Horde' instead of the Nazis and for those who think WW2 Germany was white washed for Cold War reasons in OTL it would be as nothing compared to what would have happened in such a timeline and thus the Red Army and the NKVD become the West's super villains for the rest of the 20th century.
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One really good example I can think of is Vicente Mercator from the original "For Want of a Nail". If you've read either Sobel's original, or anything from the "For All Nails" project, you'll see why.
DoD has a couple of good examples, too: One of them was Shane Mullins, the former politico-turned-dictator of New England.
And then we have Zeus Korsgaard from Glen's amazing Dominion of Southern America story. Hell, even his name is awesomely badass.
DoD has a couple of good examples, too: One of them was Shane Mullins, the former politico-turned-dictator of New England.
And then we have Zeus Korsgaard from Glen's amazing Dominion of Southern America story. Hell, even his name is awesomely badass.
Actually, in TL 191, confederates and US-Americans villify Each Other in their Movies and Comic-Books...
Generally, though Featherston is pretty diabolical, I have the impression that turtledove went with the "banality of Evil" Notion by Casting regular Guys like Rodriguez or pinkard As the Men behind this timeline's Killing factories.
Yes, but that was during the war. What I'm asking is if this sticks after news of the genocide comes out. You may end up with people being disgusted by media that portrays these monsters in a silly way.
I think that Apatite era South Africans would make good villains. Easy to draw parallels to the confederacy. They did have a lot of cool special forces, which is great for action movies. I don't know about everybody else but I think that their accent is even better as a villain's then a 've haf vays ov making you talk' Prussian accent which I think sounds quite silly. And finally 'National Conservative Party' sounds like an evil political party, but that may be due to AAPA.
The problem with South Africa is that it isn't likely to start some expansionist war of aggression that would earn it the particular ire gained from being "the bad guys we shoot at."
And I picked National Conservative for AAPA because it sounds evil, not because I was referencing some obscure South African political party.
Some sort of legalist revival in China. Or for something closer to OTL alternately, a version of Communism that fell earlier and harder, and was more antagonistic. In my opinion, one of the main reasons that communists are rarely viewed as villains anymore is that they "proved" themselves not to be a threat, and they stuck around long enough that opposition to them became too political to be used in an apolitical film.
To beat the Nazis the Americans will have to sharpen their act.
1) Compared with well dressed storm troopers you average US marine looks down right sloppy. If you look casual no one thinks that you have the credibility to take over the world.
2) The government needs to invest more in wacky science. Intelligent design is a good place to start, but too many US programs are far too sensible.
3) Hollywood needs to pull its weight. As the dominant film industry it can play an influent role in making Americans look cool villains. No many nice guys, Dreamworks!
Of course the Nazis still have an advantage in they are in the past so to speak. They don't have the risk that some muppet will go and spoil their hard created image. Think how much credibility they would have if Ronald Reagan or Sarah Palin had been able to take over the Third Reich?
Anyone who parades around in knee high white socks and shorts is not going to be cool.
The advantage of being defunct is a good point. If they still existed they are either not as evil as they are made out to be and people get upset at the inaccuracy. If they are as evil as Hollywood makes them out to be they are probably not somebody you want to piss off.
I was thinking about the Khmer Rouge and I can to the conclusion that they are so horrifyingly evil that they wouldn't make good villains in an action movie as people wouldn't be able to believe people could be that evil. However that same trait makes them prime candidates as villains in a horror film.
"Jazz & Genocide"
What about an ATL branched off from TL-191 (or a similar TL) in which the CSA's Red Rebellion is succesful and forms a new Communist government. But then a black leader like the character Cherry (hey a communist female leader could happen) who is VERY racist against white people takes power, instigates a Stalinistic regime, and commits genocide against the countries white anglo-saxon inhabitants.
I think the creation a of a "Jazz & Genocide" culture could make some pretty cool bad guys. Plus the concept of a government controlled by black people who mistreat white people is a nice subversion of the trope if you know what I mean. Kind of like Marvel comics House of M series in which mutants rule the world and humans are an abused minority.
What about an ATL branched off from TL-191 (or a similar TL) in which the CSA's Red Rebellion is succesful and forms a new Communist government. But then a black leader like the character Cherry (hey a communist female leader could happen) who is VERY racist against white people takes power, instigates a Stalinistic regime, and commits genocide against the countries white anglo-saxon inhabitants.
I think the creation a of a "Jazz & Genocide" culture could make some pretty cool bad guys. Plus the concept of a government controlled by black people who mistreat white people is a nice subversion of the trope if you know what I mean. Kind of like Marvel comics House of M series in which mutants rule the world and humans are an abused minority.