Athens v. Carthage

[Thucydides]

There have been a couple threads that have asked what would happen if Athens won the Peloponnesian War. Assuming that Athens does come out on top they would have been the dominant state in the Greek world. This Athenian hegemony might be able to resist the advances of the Macedonians as well. Assuming that this happened as well the Athenians would be in an impressive position of power over the Mediterranean.

This hegemony over the Mediterranean would inevitably beg conflict with the other maritime power in the area. Carthage. Carthage also had a large maritime trading empire, also enforced by naval might. In a war between these two states, which would come out on top?

 

[RGB]

Carthage, much as I love them, had a hard enough time against Syracuse. But to be fair, so did Athens.

Sicily is the key in all of this, anyway. Possession puts one within striking distance of the other's core areas.

 

[archaeogeek]

A Syracusan "post-Athenian" hegemony is far more likely; the center of culture and wealth in Greece shifted many times, and it was quite often more a matter of Athens trying to recover it from the east and Sicily.

By the Peloponnesian wars, the center was already quite solidly in Sicily.

 

[Rex Romanum]

The key problem here would be Syracuse, and since it was Greek, and it has some dispute over Sicily with Carthage, I think we would see some joint Syracusan-Athenian expedition defeated the Carthaginians (and maybe even sacked the Carthage itself)...

But, on the other hand, there is also a possibility that Athens will join Carthaginians' side, as Syracuse could be seen as a threat to both Athens' and Carthage's hegemony...

 

[RGB]

The key problem here would be Syracuse, and since it was Greek, and it has some dispute over Sicily with Carthage, I think we would see some joint Syracusan-Athenian expedition defeated the Carthaginians (and maybe even sacked the Carthage itself)

This is almost OTL. Suracusans devastated Carthage's environs pretty badly that one time. Ditto the reverse, of course.

But, on the other hand, there is also a possibility that Athens will join Carthaginians' side, as Syracuse could be seen as a threat to both Athens' and Carthage's hegemony...

Quite possibly, but historically Carthage chose the Tyrrhenians (Etruscans) and later the Romans as their ally to counterweight the Syracusans. Why change that?

Especially since Carthage has a rivalry with Massilia too, who would likely step in in any Italian-Carthaginian rift and create the situation that lead to historical Carthage's downfall?

 

[Susano]

This is almost OTL. Suracusans devastated Carthage's environs pretty badly that one time. Ditto the reverse, of course.

You have to admit, though, that pretty much has to be the most awesome way to do something about a siege in, like, ever in history

 

[RGB]

You have to admit, though, that pretty much has to be the most awesome way to do something about a siege in, like, ever in history

And in the end it resulted in religious understanding too! All hail mighty Demeter!

 

[Thucydides]

But even if you had a three-way struggle over Sicily the two surviving powers would still probably fight over the remains. And of course after any of these it's possible that Rome will just sweep in and take the winner and the loser.

 

[archaeogeek]

And in the end it resulted in religious understanding too! All hail mighty Demeter!

So the Eleusinian mysteries are the one true faith?

 

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So the Eleusinian mysteries are the one true faith?

You bet!

I all seriousness I don't know if there were myseteries in the Greek fashion in Carthage, but after the Syracusan wars the CArthaginians allowed Greek gods their worship in the city and even built temples to Demeter and Kore.