Assuming the same alliances, is Gross Deutschland in a worse strategic position than OTL?

There are plenty of ways to boost the French population, though to do so significantly is difficult. Acquiring the whole of Belgium is not likely, but that along with A-L would indeed get to 50 million. More than that, though? Birthrates will certainly be a little bit different in a highly industrialised (North) France, but probably not in a positive sense. Fertility campaigns generally do not have huge impacts in developed countries. IMO immigration is the best bet for a significantly higher French population, perhaps encouraged by a more dynamic French industrial economy. Italy and Eastern Europe had loads of catholics to export, all it takes is a demand for labour and a French willingness to allow it. Not easy, but not impossible.
AFAIK there was quite a lot of emigration from Italy and Eastern Europe which is why many French people have Italian and Polish surnames.

I don't know how, but my understanding is that French government policy in the nineteenth century helped to lower it's birth rate compared to Germany. Can anybody confirm that?

The other possible source of people is the French empire in Africa. AFAIK recruiting Arabs and Africans into the French Army was one of the ways they made up for their lower population.
 
Which is why Germany will insist on Trieste, and I believe would fudge the details.

I'm not supposing they give up Trentino, just that Bismarck may hint and waffle at it, using it as a negotiating leverage. The Italians want everything they can get their hands on, of course, be it Venetia, Istria, Trentino, and Dalmatia, etc.

If we assume a PoD in 1866, we have to take into account that the Italians will be checked for a while, but if the Austrians are shattered even worse than OTL, the armies defending Venetia will continue to withdraw to stem the Prussian onslaught, giving the Italians leeway to force their way through the limited Austrian defenders, who will at best constitute a holding action. Even the Italians in this scenario will be able to overwhelm (or simply bypass) isolated forts and defensive positions as they advance through Venetia, racing towards Trieste while Girabaldi is invading Trentino. By the time this total defeat occurs, it's not unlikely that the Italians will have possession de facto of the majority of Venetia, along with a garrison in Trieste and forces nearing Trent. Only Dalmatia will be untouched as it's still unlikely the Italian Navy would defeat the Austrian one.

And, since there wasn't any premeditated division of the borders postwar between Prussia and Italy, Prussia will have to give something up if it wants to reacquire Trieste, which will have a decent chance of being occupied by Italy.
Italy was at the gate of Trento already in OTL; if A-H collapses, then it probably falls outright.
 
France + OTL Belgium + Luxembourg makes a pretty border on a map at least.
Plus a border that was easier to defend and no Schlieffen Plan.

Though on the subject of pretty borders, no Belgian = no Belgian Congo. Not my area of expertise, but AFAIK it was that big to form a buffer between the British, French and Germans., who all wanted it as part of their colonial projects. E.g. the British wanted some of it for Cape Town to Cairo and the Germans wanted it because they wanted to join up the Cameroons, Tanganyika and South West Africa.
 
It would also made me think that the other great powers would want a stronger France so that the balance of power wasn't distorted too much. So part of the deal would be France keeps Alsace-Lorraine and France is allowed to annex Belgium regardless of how the Belgians feel about it. Is there any mileage in that?

Any time before the late 1890s, an Antwerp in French hands would worry Britain far more than one in the hands of a naval pygmy like Germany.
 
Any time before the late 1890s, an Antwerp in French hands would worry Britain far more than one in the hands of a naval pygmy like Germany.
I think the British would be far more worried about the French gaining control of the Belgian coal mines and steel works.
 
Why would the Germans want to piss off the Dutch who were Allies by annexing the Netherlands? Easier to do business cordially than to ransack their house as they say. I say Luxembourg to the Reich in exchange for Wallonia to France. Leave the Flemish a buffer.
 
Why would the Germans want to piss off the Dutch who were Allies by annexing the Netherlands? Easier to do business cordially than to ransack their house as they say. I say Luxembourg to the Reich in exchange for Wallonia to France. Leave the Flemish a buffer.
They might be able to get the Dutch to join at non-gunpoint, by offering them full statehood so to speak. Same level of internal autonomy as Bavaria plus representation in the German National Parliament might look like a good deal to the Dutch with there being a resurgent France to the West. Berlin would be rather motivated to offer them a good deal, as getting the Dutch to join in would mean more Protestants to balance out all those additional compared to OTL Catholic voters they got.
 
Why would the Germans want to piss off the Dutch who were Allies by annexing the Netherlands? Easier to do business cordially than to ransack their house as they say. I say Luxembourg to the Reich in exchange for Wallonia to France. Leave the Flemish a buffer.
Who say anything annexing the dutch, we derailed this thread so fast
 
They might be able to get the Dutch to join at non-gunpoint, by offering them full statehood so to speak. Same level of internal autonomy as Bavaria plus representation in the German National Parliament might look like a good deal to the Dutch with there being a resurgent France to the West. Berlin would be rather motivated to offer them a good deal, as getting the Dutch to join in would mean more Protestants to balance out all those additional compared to OTL Catholic voters they got.
The Dutch had an empire and were weary of absorption all the way back to their break with the Holy Roman Empire. I don't feel they are willing to give up that international prestige for the Germans.
 
yeah what happened?

A German Netherlands is not really off-topic to a conversation on Grossdeutschland, although it is a very low probability event with any post-Napoleonic PoD. It would of course create a very different strategic situation, the UK would be very anti-Germany under most circumstances if Germany absorbed the Netherlands.
 
A German Netherlands is not really off-topic to a conversation on Grossdeutschland, although it is a very low probability event with any post-Napoleonic PoD. It would of course create a very different strategic situation, the UK would be very anti-Germany under most circumstances if Germany absorbed the Netherlands.
Still we derailed the thread, OP give us a scenario, let's discuss OP scenario and later we can make our own in our own threads them
 
A German Netherlands is not really off-topic to a conversation on Grossdeutschland, although it is a very low probability event with any post-Napoleonic PoD. It would of course create a very different strategic situation, the UK would be very anti-Germany under most circumstances if Germany absorbed the Netherlands.
The Brits would never allow it (isle sovereignty and all) not to mention the ties between the Dutch and UK as well as the fact the Dutch had been a world power for centuries while the Germans were a recent player on the world stage. The Dutch supported German ambitions (South Africa being one reason and the centuries of British ambition undermining their world position including New Amsterdam). But the Dutch with possessions worldwide wouldn't susume themselves.
 
The Dutch had an empire and were weary of absorption all the way back to their break with the Holy Roman Empire. I don't feel they are willing to give up that international prestige for the Germans.

The Brits would never allow it (isle sovereignty and all) not to mention the ties between the Dutch and UK as well as the fact the Dutch had been a world power for centuries while the Germans were a recent player on the world stage. The Dutch supported German ambitions (South Africa being one reason and the centuries of British ambition undermining their world position including New Amsterdam). But the Dutch with possessions worldwide wouldn't susume themselves.

In hindsight I was unclear about this: I meant Germany peacefully absorbing the Netherlands in a scenario where France successfully takes Belgium after Grossdeutschland is formed. In that scenario and bearing in mind, that the World Wars weren't in the British and Dutch collective memories, while the Napoleonic Wars most certainly still were I think it could happen. BTW that doesn't mean I consider it a certainty, just not an impossibility either.
 
In hindsight I was unclear about this: I meant Germany peacefully absorbing the Netherlands in a scenario where France successfully takes Belgium after Grossdeutschland is formed. In that scenario and bearing in mind, that the World Wars weren't in the British and Dutch collective memories, while the Napoleonic Wars most certainly still were I think it could happen. BTW that doesn't mean I consider it a certainty, just not an impossibility either.

But why union? The Dutch have had a distinct national identity for centuries.

Why not just ally with Germany (and perhaps Britain as well) to boot the French out of Belgium?
 
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