assault guns early (1935)

both guderian and manstein during the german army's expansion in the mid 1930s suggested motorizing the artillery of all german divisions

they where denied and instead the anti tank companies of each division where motorized instead (trucks towing a lousy 37mm gun whoopy)

lets say the army ordinance office concurs with guderian and every german division's artillery will be towed or self propelled and they manage to eliminate horses from at least this part of their mobility

does this have any long term consequences
 
where do all the trucks and other towing vehicles come from? From less tanks being produced?

At best Germany could completly motorize few of its devisions at the expense of others. Don't know how well that would go down among army leadership though (and don't say W-SS divisions, they didn't exists back then)
 
the trucks arent given to the anti guns and are instead given to the artillary (in theory every anti tank company was more or less motorized) those (the anti tank guns) would all be horse drawn since they only need to keep up with the infantry to protect them anyway
 
Before the war began the Germans were producing 1/2 million vehicles per year with the Truck production increasing from 70,000 in 1936 to ~100,000 units by 1939. The OKW only ordered only 1/10 of these trucks in the mid 1930s, but were up to 1/3 by war time. After the war began civilian and export markets were still getting 1/3 of this production although that was reduced to 10-15% by 1943/44.

Getting the trucks was merely a matter of purchasing select models in army gray ;). But yes some expansion of the motor works/fuel columns would have to occur, so not quite as easy, but definatly doable.

The cost of the additional trucks could easily be borne by moving from expensive 'annual cost plus' contracts to 'multi year fixed price' contracts.
 
the trucks arent given to the anti guns and are instead given to the artillary (in theory every anti tank company was more or less motorized) those (the anti tank guns) would all be horse drawn since they only need to keep up with the infantry to protect them anyway


Each Regiment had a motorised PAK company , while the division had the Panzer Jagger battalion three full three motorised companies. All you'd have to do would be to exchange the horse & limbers of the arty Regiment with the PzJagger battalion vehicles and they would pass these on down to the infantry Regiments. The infantry regiment would then send its vehicles from the motorised PAK companies , back up to the PAK battalion.

Obviously it would never be that simiple, since the 150mm howitzer battalion would probably need tractors to tow these big guns...but in theory since the infantry 150s were in two sections , the trailers might be towed by 3-4 ton trucks. Like wize the wagons and limbers for the 105mm & 150mm howitzers would be far to big to haul the PAK 35 guns. Maybe they could go to Supply section in exchange for some smaller wagons?

But on the face of it the Panzer jagger battalion has ~160 vehiles while another 20 are at each regiment. A mototized Artillery Regiment has something like 400-500 vehicles , so you may only be able to motorize the 150mm Howitzer Battalion and leave the 105mm horse drawn.

As I recall each Infantry Regiment had ~ 80 vehicles for all tasks and if these were channel back to division and pooled with the PAK battalion you'd get > 400 vehicles. A motorise Arty Regiment would be far more valuable than motorize PAK.
 
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After the war began civilian and export markets were still getting 1/3 of this [truck] production although that was reduced to 10-15% by 1943/44.

Those "civilian and export markets" were war/food/coal industry and public transport for the workers in the Heimat and the occupied territories, right?

(Oh, and to the OP: Failure to distinguish between assault guns and turretless tank destroyers on the one hand and self-propelled artillery on the other is a punishable offence here at AH.com:D)
 
i like esl's arguement for it so say the 150's and a small portion of the 105s in every division are mobile does this give the german army more flexability especially in russia where they need to shuttle around resources over larger non horse friendly distances
 
For the infantry divisions, does it matter if it is the anti-tank batteries or the artillery batteries are motorized? If the bulk of the infantry division is reliant on horses and human feet for movement, the whole division is still limited in movement.

The motorized vehicles in the anti-tank companies, were they also used to transport infantry?
 
Those "civilian and export markets" were war/food/coal industry and public transport for the workers in the Heimat and the occupied territories, right?

(Oh, and to the OP: Failure to distinguish between assault guns and turretless tank destroyers on the one hand and self-propelled artillery on the other is a punishable offence here at AH.com:D)

Yeah I was wonder if we'd get to that....

The German civilian economy started the war with 3 million vehicle on the road, by 1944 I think it was down to 1/4 million due to war losses.
 
For the infantry divisions, does it matter if it is the anti-tank batteries or the artillery batteries are motorized? If the bulk of the infantry division is reliant on horses and human feet for movement, the whole division is still limited in movement.

The motorized vehicles in the anti-tank companies, were they also used to transport infantry?


No but back in the early war period they did form motorize battle group to surge ahead of the division /korps. I gather they had the mission of protecting the fuel stockpiled along the way in between the marching infantry front and the rampaging panzer groups. From what I recall they had motorized PAK battalion plus a M/C recon company and motorize engineer company.

As to the value of motorising the arty over the PAK... The PAK could hardly move about under fire even with motorization. However the Motorized arty could be kept mobile enough to be rushed to the most threatened sector of the front. Under counter battery fire they could displace relatively quickly to minimize casulties. Remember that some times these divisions had to cover ~20km front in the East, with 6 understrenght infantry battalions. Being able to rush a 105mm & 150mm Howitzer battalions to that regimental sector could make the difference between victory and defeat.

I understand as a korps battle they could amass the 150mm Howitzer battalions in the rear if they were motorized and move them enmass to counter the enemy break through sectors.
 
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