Asian Invasion

During the late 19th century there was fear about the idea of the Yellow Menace. The fear was based on China and/or Japan with their huge populations out breeding and generally hording over the world. This played into alot of the Invasion fiction of the early 20th century as well. Britain and France was where this was most common (though in France it was less fiction and more justified concern). So this got to me thinking, could either Japan or China actually launch an invasion half way across the world?

Now at this time you may be thinking "what kind of crazy idea is that?" Yet consider that despite having very few coaling stations Russia was able to launch its Baltic Fleet all around the world to fight the Japanese. Could the opposite occur? Also despite Japan's fame for sudden industrial advance and China's infamous anti-progress attitude (like the Boxer Rebellion), China underwent many reforms during the 19th century and with a few changes could have accomplished even more.

The idea of "an invasion fleet around the world" either by a more powerful Japan, or even a reformed China is still too outlandish. Obviously those two powers even in the best conditions couldn't pull that off. So European support would have to play a role. The British could very easily provide the logistics if not the ships to transport an Asian army to Europe, but that sounds too much like a simple colonial levy. Yet in reality there is nothing the Asians could muster that would defeat the British during their height. This could work out though if there is a general European war likely France versus Germany. With Britain's total neutrality and perhaps the sinking or distraction of the French fleet, it might be possible for a reformed China to sneak in "an invasion fleet around the world".

My challenge to AH.com is to think of a POD to make this happen, or simply convince me that I am crazy.

(the later shouldn't be too hard).
 
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All right, I'll take the former, almost ASB route.

You could have a more devastating Black Death in Europe (maybe it mutates along the way) and still it will not fix the problems of the Chinese society and needs. To put it simply - China needs to be divided and locked in a state of conflict that won't result in unification unless a massive technological advantage is obtained. Maybe then we could see a China-dominated Europe, but it's far fetched.
 
The idea of "an invasion fleet around the world" either by a more powerful Japan, or even a reformed China is still too outlandish. Obviously those two powers even in the best conditions couldn't pull that off.

In the best conditions? Sure they could. But you without a PoD, and then a convincing string of events following that PoD, I don't know.

Recently I came across a reference to Lord Clive of India asking Pitt to be allowed to invade China to force open trade in the 1760's. Now, it seems to me that an ill-advised British invasion of China in that kind of time period could be significant. The Chinese would definately defeat that invasion, but the shock might piss them off to the extent that they decide that the barbarians of the West need to be dealt with.

The power differentials in this era being very different from a hundred years later, they might be able to pull off something. I mean, if the Ming can get a huge fleet exploring around the Indian Ocean, smacking down Sri Lankan kings and trading with Africa, all in the early 15th century; then I think the Qing could draw off the experiences and knowledge of Europeans and put together an invasion fleet in the 18th century. They had no reason to even think about such a scheme in OTL, but the right combination of desire for retribution and a sudden sense of insecurity might push them out of their slumber.
 
Recently I came across a reference to Lord Clive of India asking Pitt to be allowed to invade China to force open trade in the 1760's. Now, it seems to me that an ill-advised British invasion of China in that kind of time period could be significant. The Chinese would definately defeat that invasion, but the shock might piss them off to the extent that they decide that the barbarians of the West need to be dealt with.
that realy sounds interesting
 

Don Grey

Banned
It can be possible if we call on the alien space bats. Have china go through massive reforms early then have them enter the the industrial revalution when britian does. Juts imagin china on the same level as tech and knowladge as the west now thats scary when you include there pop. For japan do the same thing but they will need industrial resources for what i know they have quite a bit of coal on japan so have them have colonies early on whit other things they may need in there colonies. I cant think of anything else.
 
Have the Dowager Empress die early or not successfully seize power and China might pull a Meiji at the same time as Japan. They might be more valued as an ally in WWI and if they end up a Central Power (with Japan as an Ally), Russia and British India could be in trouble.

The 1760s-attack-on-China strikes me as an interesting scenario. I'm imagining some poor Royal Navy or East India Company captain having a heart attack upon seeing the rebuilt Treasure Fleet (with some modern improvements to the design) bearing down on him.

(Seriously--nine-masted ships with rudders as big as the Nina, Pinta, and Santa Maria. Yikes.)
 
During the late 19th century there was fear about the idea of the Yellow Menace. The fear was based on China and/or Japan with their huge populations out breeding and generally hording over the world. This played into alot of the Invasion fiction of the early 20th century as well. Britain and France was where this was most common (though in France it was less fiction and more justified concern). So this got to me thinking, could either Japan or China actually launch an invasion half way across the world?

Now at this time you may be thinking "what kind of crazy idea is that?" Yet consider that despite having very few coaling stations Russia was able to launch its Baltic Fleet all around the world to fight the Japanese. Could the opposite occur? Also despite Japan's fame for sudden industrial advance and China's infamous anti-progress attitude (like the Boxer Rebellion), China underwent many reforms during the 19th century and with a few changes could have accomplished even more.

The idea of "an invasion fleet around the world" either by a more powerful Japan, or even a reformed China is still too outlandish. Obviously those two powers even in the best conditions couldn't pull that off. So European support would have to play a role. The British could very easily provide the logistics if not the ships to transport an Asian army to Europe, but that sounds too much like a simple colonial levy. Yet in reality there is nothing the Asians could muster that would defeat the British during their height. This could work out though if there is a general European war likely France versus Germany. With Britain's total neutrality and perhaps the sinking or distraction of the French fleet, it might be possible for a reformed China to sneak in "an invasion fleet around the world".

My challenge to AH.com is to think of a POD to make this happen, or simply convince me that I am crazy.

(the later shouldn't be too hard).
Time to link to The Unparalleled Invasion!
 
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