ARW: Most Plausible Way to add Canada to Revolution

Hrm. That's the problem I've been having right there - I haven't gotten into explicitly Canadian sources on the invasion. That's very helpful, thanks.

And interesting. Did any individuals stand out, among those who turned on the British? On this list they go!

James Livingston and Moses Hazen stand out by far as the men who turned on the British. Hazen is perhaps the most interesting since he has a badass name, but also because he had previous served in the British Army in the capture of Quebec.

My thinking was that the province looked to Quebec to a degree. It was not an easy city to take, and as you say everyone knew they could expect a counterattack in the spring. So taking the city would be suggestive of a certain plausibility of American success, while failing to take the city (and languishing embarrassingly in front of it, wracked by smallpox) would naturally have been taken as an indication that the Anglo-American presence was going to be quite temporary.

That says to me that however much a spring victory could have been the decisive turning point, the capture of Quebec would still have been a significant one.

Capturing Quebec probably would have been a good start, but I do believe that the Americans would still have to win in the spring. Driving the British off is one thing, keeping them away is another entirely.

If the Continentals can show the Canadiens that they are capable of both defeating the British and defending the local population from British return. That would also give them time to smooth over more of the problems with the locals and negotiate more concrete deals.

What do you have in mind?

To my mind one of the biggest changes would be organizing something more than an ad hoc expedition, which had more concrete political leadership and actually thought to bring some hard currency. In OTL one of the biggest grievances was that the Americans were actually basically paying in worthless paper money and I.O.U's to the populace while requisitioning an enormous amount of supplies.

Fixing that would be an enormous step forward.

Perhaps, but I suspect it would be a non-starter just based on the Franco-American political issues. The French might support independence, but getting the place back for themselves would end their new American relationship on about a bad a not as possible.

Of course, just because they start out independent doesn't mean they never consider joining the United States. Canada could join the Revolution, and then the country half a century later. Probably not, but it would be interesting.

Well the Canadien population themselves would probably be most comfortable with a return to monarchal French rule. This is going to be only about 15-20 years after the Conquest after all, and the French crown has quite a bit of leverage with the Continental Congress considering all the men and materials they supplied for their independence. It may simply be seen as a way to pay back the French support. I imagine there would be some contention about borders, but in the long run that would end up largely theoretical.
 
- What did you guys think of PuffyCloud's thorough synopsis for how it could all happen?

- Presuming Quebec were ceded to France, and presuming no butterflies, would Napoleon consider including that in the Louisiana Purchase?
 
A couple of interesting characters here are Michel and Alain Chartier, father and son, 1st and 2nd Marquis de Lotbiniere, though Alain never used the title.

Born in Quebec, related to much of the seigneury, including two former Governors General of new France, Michel served as a military engineer in the Seven Year's War, went to Paris after the war but returned to Quebec to become a landowner. He engaged in a series of long and fruitless lawsuits to recover estates in New York (it was 150,000 acres), and ended up having to hand over his own properties to his son Alain.

He was in London pursuing his case when the Revolution broke out; after he lost, he rennounced his status as a British subject and when to Paris, where he received a "secret commission" to act as an "observer" from the French Foreign Ministry. he sailed to Boston, and promptly announced his mission to all and sundry. He was briefly befriended by many prominent Patriots, including John Hancock and Ben Franklin, but quickly became a total pain in the butt, and was largely ignored.

But, suppose the Americans held Quebec, and he showed up holding a commision from the French- probably double-dealing with both sides, promising support to the Americans and holding out the possibility of reunion to the seigneurs and the Church.

Then there is his son Alain, who did not have good relations with the old man. After buying up his father's properties, he became one of the richest and most influential landowners in the province, co-operating with the British. He volunteered to fight the American invasion in 1775, when he was promptly captured. After a year in American custody he was returned to Quebec, where he ended up becoming the Speaker of the Quebec Parliament- hardly seems a promising candidate to work with the Yankees- and yet....

He was held under house arrest by William Bingham, a wealthy businessman and prominent Patriot- later a US senator with connections to France through privateering-he served as a commissioner to France during the Revolution; one of his daughter married a couple of French aristocrats (succcesively); his son later married Alain Chartier's daughter.

He was also strongly pro-French rights, as Speaker demanding equality for the French language in the legislature.

So what happens if the Americans still hold Quebec City, his father is there wiggling into power, and the possibility of independence/joining the Americans is held up as an alternative- he sounds like somebody that might be willing to take a chance.

Of course this also depends on a little earlier POD which has the French/Spanish more willing to take action.
 
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