Armchair Quarterback

KGBeast

Banned
Let's imagine you are in charge of Germany in 1914, how would you conduct the war, according to the Schliffen Plan or make up your own strategy. For me I would keep to the defensive in the West and let the French bleed themselves white by attacking heavily fortified forts and strongholds, by not invading through Belgium, England stays out of the war, I would bring all my forces to bear against the weaker and more unstable Russia and use envelopment and flanking strategy to encircle the Russians as was done in WW2 and knock them out in a quick war and then bring my combined forces against a weakened French defense.
 
I would bring all my forces to bear against the weaker and more unstable Russia and use envelopment and flanking strategy to encircle the Russians as was done in WW2 and knock them out in a quick war ...

How'd that strategy work out for the Nazis?

There's a lot of reasonable possibilities for opting for an East "first" strategy. In fact there's a quite lively thread going on right now about it. But even the pro-Easters in that thread are making no claims about a 'quick' war.
 
If I was Germany I would spent much more effort on ensuring that Italy did not renage on helping in the war. Once Italian involvement was endured try a strike on the Italian/French border to bypass the Northern forts. Not attacking Belgium and thus not giving Britain a cassus belli in the process.

In the meanwhile stay on the defensive in the East whilst moving forces to shore up Austrian lines wherever feasible. On the Western front launch small offensives to seize the strongest densifive positions possible and then digging in fortified positions.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Let's imagine you are in charge of Germany in 1914, how would you conduct the war, according to the Schliffen Plan or make up your own strategy. For me I would keep to the defensive in the West and let the French bleed themselves white by attacking heavily fortified forts and strongholds, by not invading through Belgium, England stays out of the war, I would bring all my forces to bear against the weaker and more unstable Russia and use envelopment and flanking strategy to encircle the Russians as was done in WW2 and knock them out in a quick war and then bring my combined forces against a weakened French defense.

I assume you are giving us knowledge from OTL.

A huge amount depends on the date. In July, I pull my support for A-H, and insist that I pre approve the demands, which will still be harsh, but not cause a war. It will be a minor, but important diplomatic victory for the Central powers.

Once the demands are sent to Serbia, it becomes very hard to avoid war. If I can get A-H to accept Serbia's reply, I will simply counter mobilize if Russia does not stand down. IMO, if A-H accepts Serbia response, it is assured the UK does not enter the war, and France will even have a hard time supporting Russia in this case. I would be open to throwing the UK some additional concession related to Serbia, if this is what is needed to prevent war. I will replace Moltke with Falkenhayn and have him improvise a Plan Russia.

If a war can't be avoided, I will mobilize as soon as I determine it can't be avoided. I am going to be label the aggressor, so why not try to get a faster mobilization than OTL. Maybe a extra 24-48 hours ahead of the French will help. Destroying the French industrial base is a must. I don't know the 1914 battle on a division by division level like some do, so I would simply remind the GHQ to keep the gaps to a minimum and take my daily briefing. I would have the High Seas Fleet seek a decisive battle with the UK on day one, but only at Jutland or closer. The UK will likely seek battle, and the odds will never be better for the Germans. I also go see Conrad/Emperor and try to persuade them to send the 2nd Army east and not attack Serbia yet.

Ok, hopefully nothing is much worse than OTL, and something is better such as we have a little bit more of France, won the sea battle, or Galicia went better. But lets say it is about the same, then we have to do many of the things we did IOTL. Falkenhayn had a good first year. Work on diplomacy to try to keep Italy out (very hard) or get Bulgaria in a few months earlier (very possible). Unless the Sea battle went incredibly well, we now focus on a merchant raider strategy following cruiser rules. It will be a long, bloody war, but if we can keep the USA out and avoid any disaster that did not happen in OTL, we can at least pull off a draw.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
If I was Germany I would spent much more effort on ensuring that Italy did not renage on helping in the war. Once Italian involvement was endured try a strike on the Italian/French border to bypass the Northern forts. Not attacking Belgium and thus not giving Britain a cassus belli in the process.

How? You control Germany, not A-H. What are you offering the Italians to stay out of the war?

In the meanwhile stay on the defensive in the East whilst moving forces to shore up Austrian lines wherever feasible. On the Western front launch small offensives to seize the strongest densifive positions possible and then digging in fortified positions.

No real need to mix units yet. As soon as Germany looks like it is doing an eastern focus, Russia will pull the 4th Army back to Baronovich (sic), which is probably enough to keep the A-H lines from collapsing and losing Pzemsyl and maybe Lemberg. If we give Hindenburg 3 full armies, he likely can take large portions of Western Poland relieving A-H even more. The down side to your plan is France keeps her industrial base, and if the UK still enters the war, the Western Front will be much harder.

The go east plan is based on the UK not entering the war, which IMO is impossible to do once A-H rejects the ultimatum. Now if your gamble that the UK stays out of the war is correct, you plan will be brilliant.
 
I'd go for what Egypt seemed to go for in 1973: Go after a specific, limited goal, and, hang onto it without deviating from the specific limited goal.

I'm guessing the best thing is to take a measured bite out of France and keep the jaws clenched tight. Or maybe do the same thing to Russia, though that doesn't appeal to me as much for whatever reason...
 
As a pure thought exercise, I'd try to do the following if the objective would be to win the war as Germany:


  1. Do everything possible to get the Habsburgs to stick to the original plan and focus their reserves against Russia, maybe even do something similar to the "austro-hungarian tannenberg"-scenario, that at least delays a russian build-up
  2. this will prevent the loss of their experienced, multi-lingual officer corps, allowing them to build up a much better army, keep Galicia and thus adding a lot of resources to the CP war effort and also dispel any second thoughts Bulgaria had OTL (when they thought the Russians were about the brake open into the Hungarian Plain) thus getting a Bulgarian entry months earlier
  3. don't transfer anything back to Prussia before the Marne battle. have everyone dig in just before the french counter-attack, and thus get a draw instead of a defeat
  4. quickly send forces north and win the race to the sea. this screws France greatly
  5. if the BEF is destroyed or seriously mauled because of this, than its a bonus
  6. dig in the west except for a mopping-up operation in Belgium and send forces east to defeat the Russian in Prussia and strengthen the austrian front
  7. joint german-habsburg-bulgarian invasion of Serbia in december-january, knocking serbia out
  8. place as many orders to US companies for merchant subs as possible. Make as much use as possible from the leaks in the allied blockade before it tightens
  9. use the subs to bring back critical war materials that Germany OTL lacked
  10. seek out a decisive battle with the Royal Navy by trying to lure them into a u-boat/minefield trap and hope for the best. If it goes slightly better than Jutland, it should have positive effects like morale boost, diplomatic butterflies or the british keeping more troops at home
  11. support the Ottomans as much as feasible
  12. in 1915 attack at Verdun like OTL, but stop early before the French bring in too many reinforcements
  13. This ATL *Verdun should trigger a Russian offensive, providing an excellent opportunity for another cheap victory against them
  14. Follow this up with limited offensives into Poland and the Baltic countries. Bonus points if it results in some Russian armies being encircled
  15. fire Zimmerman
  16. no unrestricted submarine warfare
  17. do everything possible to make friends with the USA
  18. keep on the defensive in the west, cautiously push east
  19. send Lenin to Russia and hope for the best
  20. try a surprise offensive or two to try and take out Italy, should a Brest-Litovsk style peace in the east be achieved
  21. Never, ever, ever let Hindenburg and Ludendorf in charge of the country
  22. offer Status-quo-ante to the British and French except for demands on Belgian Congo and Luxemburg as well as recognition of the gains made in the east. Throw in some naval limitations clause and bits and pieces of colonies, as well as a partition of Belgium to the British and French to sweeten the deal
  23. ???
  24. profit !!


So, what do you think guys ? Are there any chances this would result in a CP victory ? Is the TL even possible ?
 
Let's imagine you are in charge of Germany in 1914, how would you conduct the war, according to the Schliffen Plan or make up your own strategy. For me I would keep to the defensive in the West and let the French bleed themselves white by attacking heavily fortified forts and strongholds, by not invading through Belgium, England stays out of the war, I would bring all my forces to bear against the weaker and more unstable Russia and use envelopment and flanking strategy to encircle the Russians as was done in WW2 and knock them out in a quick war and then bring my combined forces against a weakened French defense.
If I am really in charge of Germany I don't start the war.
 
If it's reached the stage where war seems inevitable?
Keep the wing that goes through Belgium stronger than it was IOTL, as previously planned, but instead of trying to wheel this leftwards to pin the French army against the wing that's [hopefully] holding the line in Alsace-Lorraine have it focus its efforts on (a) splitting-apart & shattering as many of the Allied corps faced as possible and (b) pushing onwards towards Paris. Hit hard enough, quickly enough, France might collapse...
 
If I was Germany I would spent much more effort on ensuring that Italy did not renage on helping in the war. Once Italian involvement was endured try a strike on the Italian/French border to bypass the Northern forts. Not attacking Belgium and thus not giving Britain a cassus belli in the process.

In the meanwhile stay on the defensive in the East whilst moving forces to shore up Austrian lines wherever feasible. On the Western front launch small offensives to seize the strongest densifive positions possible and then digging in fortified positions.

That seems to be a very sensible plan, although Britain may have got involved whether Belgium was attacked or not. Their alliance with France was too strong and they were simply trying not to join in as much as possible live the Americans in WW2, until the attack upon Pearl Harbour
 
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