Is there any conceivable way that the Arian Germanic tribes could convert Italy and Gaul to Arianism, or at least keep OTL Germany arain,given that the orthodox peoples had a higher level of cultural sophistication?
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Is there any conceivable way that the Arian Germanic tribes could convert Italy and Gaul to Arianism, or at least keep OTL Germany a rain,given that the orthodox peoples had a higher level of cultural sophistication?
Never mind Italy. If the Arians got into the British Isles, there's probably no way Orthodox Christians could have dislodged them very soon. British history might have taken a very different turn, with Ireland perhaps Arian instead of besottedly Catholic because of St. Patrick and both Isles in effect having their Reformation a thousand years early and being at odds with the rest of Europe for the next thousand years or so. It would make an interesting TL. Could or would crusades be mounted against heretic Arian England, Scotland and Ireland?![]()
Never mind Italy. If the Arians got into the British Isles, there's probably no way Orthodox Christians could have dislodged them very soon. British history might have taken a very different turn, with Ireland perhaps Arian instead of besottedly Catholic because of St. Patrick and both Isles in effect having their Reformation a thousand years early and being at odds with the rest of Europe for the next thousand years or so. It would make an interesting TL. Could or would crusades be mounted against heretic Arian England, Scotland and Ireland?![]()
At the very latest, the Arian Anglo-Saxons would have been conquered by the Normans, although that probably would have been butterflied.Surely the British Isles would eventually choose Catholicism over Arianism for similar reasons to the ones the Northumbrians chose it over the Celtic Christian traditions at the Synod of Whitby?
If France goes Catholic, then the Anglo-Saxons will probably convert in much the same way as the OTL conversion from paganism, and for similar reasons. I doubt crusades would be needed (and "crusades" as such didn't really develop as a theological concept until much later).
The gaelic church was already heretical OTL. In fact that was the justification for the English invasion of Ireland by Henry II
1) Gaul was already catholics. Franks converted from paganism to orthodoxy because it was more easy to take Gaul against bigger fishes with the support of roman bishops.If France goes Catholic, then the Anglo-Saxons will probably convert in much the same way as the OTL conversion from paganism, and for similar reasons. I doubt crusades would be needed (and "crusades" as such didn't really develop as a theological concept until much later).
The best way, I think, would be if the Goths were able to solidify themselves, and beat back the Franks (assuming no Byzantine intervention, of course).
It's mostly due to the fact that under Theodoric, only the Goths and Vandals kept a more strong arianism. Amongst the western Germans, it was already history.Under Theoderick, many of the Roman Arian churches had begun to merge in with the Gothic Church.
Furthermore, if religiously homeists churches tendend to be more like each other, it's as much due to the fact the arian kings didn't really wanted to launch theological debates.
Again, an early medieval church, before being homeist, catholic or whatever else is before all things when you remove the theological concerns, a national church ruled by the kings (and bishops, critically in orthodox churches).
I'm sorry but this is the most unlikely scenario possible. All the religious policy of Arian kings was to use arianism separate the romans and germans, to prevent the disapperence of a german nobility they could control better.If the Goths are able to win a great victory, it would make Arianism the prestige faith amongst Germans and may have seen some Roman converts as well.
Really, the religious concerns weren't really present : even the Vandals fought with orthodox bishops more because they were opposing their power (while orthodox clergy in Italy by exemple, accepted Gothic arian political domination), keeping ties with Romans and trying to do with them what Gallic bishops did with Clovis,...
No really, while Huneric by exemple was the most militant german leader regarding arianism, his concerns aren't different of the others ones : Vandals being really minoritary, didn't having a real legitimacy to be in Africa (while Franks, Wisigoths, Ostrogoths, etc could point emperors gave them the administration of their lands), within an hostile population...
Again, I beg to differ : you see, for Anglo-Saxons, Aranism was as foreign than Orthodoxy. The whole point of keeping arianism by the germans settling in Roman lands was to preserve a national faith, a distinctive church that separated them from romans.Likely Arianism becomes tthe faith in Germany and Britain (as stated, it would allow the Angles and Saxons to gain prestige and still differentiate themselves from the British rivals).
Not only paganism fulfill this as much, if not better, but a conversion to Arianism would be possible eventually only if the heresy is completly dominant : and even at the peak of hoemist influence, germans never managed to make converts at a noticable scale, at the contrary they were the one converted little by little.