Are Personal Unions Still Possible in Modern Day?

Just as the title says: Are Personal Unions Still Possible in Modern Day?

For example could it be possible for say the British Monarch to marry the Japanese one and the child inherit both crowns and merge the two nations? Same could be said about any combination of nations from here:

World_Monarchies.png


red Absolute monarchy
orange Semi-constitutional monarchy
dark green Constitutional monarchy
light green Commonwealth realms (consitutional monarchies in personal union)
purple Subnational monarchies (traditional)
 
Oh my goodness. There's that few monarchies left in the world?

Anyway, no. I don't see any way for it to be proposed without the entire country laughing it out of the room.
 
Even Scandinavian countries these days would sooner go republican than enter a personal union. I can't see Danes, Norwegians or Swedes passing such a matter in a referendum.
 
You know it does not have to be voluntary... it could just be circumstance, plus remember that in a personnal union both nations are independent with their own intrests, laws, and borders. but just so happen to be ruled by the same Monarch.

Even Scandinavian countries these days would sooner go republican than enter a personal union. I can't see Danes, Norwegians or Swedes passing such a matter in a referendum.

I could see the Danes and Norwegians possibly do a personnal union by circumstance without much problems comming up since the Norwegians and Danes are like best friends and Norway would still be able to not be the EU.
 

Devvy

Donor
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand & other Commonwealth Realms in a personal union at the moment?
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but aren't the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand & other Commonwealth Realms in a personal union at the moment?

According to Wikipedia that is technicaly the case and shows what i mean when i say that the nations themselves have their own laws, borders, and intrests...

I just want to know if it is possible for any more of them to show up via royal marriage and the like...
 
Even Scandinavian countries these days would sooner go republican than enter a personal union. I can't see Danes, Norwegians or Swedes passing such a matter in a referendum.

There wouldn't necessarily need to be a referendum though. If one person is set up to inherit all the thrones and then do so (obviously not at the same time) then our constitutions do guarantee the right for that person to take the throne, and there is nothing prohibiting our monarchs from being monarchs of other countries as well. The order of succession is pretty clear cut.

Of course monarchs can still be deposed by parliament, although that would be quite the overreaction and doubtlessly not something most Scandinavian parties would bother with even trying to push politically (those who might would push for abolishing the monarchy instead, as you pointed out).

Where the problem lies if you'd like to see this is that there would need to be a royal marriage between two ruling families, and that is not likely to happen. The European royalty are all cousins to begin with (at the least), and these days Scandinavian royalty has an unspoken policy of only marrying commoners.

So it's not likely to happen.

You still have the commonwealth though. That's a personal union.

According to Wikipedia that is technicaly the case and shows what i mean when i say that the nations themselves have their own laws, borders, and intrests...

I just want to know if it is possible for any more of them to show up via royal marriage and the like...

Just wanted to put this in here too since I touched on the subject above: European monarchs don't really do royal marriages any more. Think about it, they all marry commoners these days.
 
Even Scandinavian countries these days would sooner go republican than enter a personal union. I can't see Danes, Norwegians or Swedes passing such a matter in a referendum.

But why would the issue even come up in a referendum?

Basically it's nobody's business if two monarchs happen to marry unless that marriage violates some law.

In any case, for Britain and the other Commonwealth nations, other countries monarchs (and their descendants) are already in the line of succession (King Harald V of Norway, King Carl XVI of Sweden, Queen Margrethe II of Denmark and Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands).

For other countries the line of succession is more limited (e.g. Dutch line of succession is limited to those within 3 degrees of kinship to the current monarch), but nothing in the laws states that the monarch should be monarch of that country only (although there are provisions in the Swedish act of succession that the monarch must be brought up in the Church of Sweden and that any heir to the throne cannot marry without the consent of the monarch, nor can any heir become monarch in another country (by election or marriage) without the consent of the monarch and the government).



So a situation could arise where say...Prince Charles dies before inheriting the throne and then Prince William eventually becomes King, but he doesn't have any kids (or his kids die) and Prince Henry marries Princess Madeleine (3rd in line to the Swedish throne and the marriage is approved since nobody expects Madeleine to really be in the running for the throne) and they have children (who are brought up in the Church of Sweden). Then say all the others in line to the Swedish throne die before producing children or are found to be sterile.

At that point any number of scenarios could arise:

1. Prince Henry remains a Prince but Madeleine becomes Queen of Sweden and their first child will be in line to both the British and Swedish thrones.

2. Prince Henry could become King of Britain and Nothern Ireland and Madeleine remains a Princess but their first child will be in line to both thrones.

3. The both become monarchs in their respective countries and their first child is in line to both thrones.

4. Neither becomes a monarch but their first child becomes King of Sweden and then King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I'm sure others could come up with a much more complicated scenario in which this new King of Sweden and King of Britain and Northern Ireland would have children who end up getting married to heirs to the Dutch throne and where the Danish throne and Norwegian throne are already in personal union through a similar Henry-Madeleine scenario and then the final personal unification occurs when an heir to the Swedish-British-Dutch thrones marries an heir to the Danish-Norwegian thrones and produce a child that would be legally entitled to inherit all 5 thrones.
 
For other countries the line of succession is more limited (e.g. Dutch line of succession is limited to those within 3 degrees of kinship to the current monarch), but nothing in the laws states that the monarch should be monarch of that country only (although there are provisions in the Swedish act of succession that the monarch must be brought up in the Church of Sweden and that any heir to the throne cannot marry without the consent of the monarch, nor can any heir become monarch in another country (by election or marriage) without the consent of the monarch and the government).

Uh... where is that mentioned exactly? Keep in mind that the Swedish constitution was actually changed quite a bit recently (this new year in fact).

EDIT: Never mind, I was reading the wrong part of the constitution. Yes, that is quite clearly in there. Weird they didn't get rid of it with all the other changes they did.
 
So a situation could arise where say...Prince Charles dies before inheriting the throne and then Prince William eventually becomes King, but he doesn't have any kids (or his kids die) and Prince Henry marries Princess Madeleine (3rd in line to the Swedish throne and the marriage is approved since nobody expects Madeleine to really be in the running for the throne) and they have children (who are brought up in the Church of Sweden). Then say all the others in line to the Swedish throne die before producing children or are found to be sterile.

At that point any number of scenarios could arise:

1. Prince Henry remains a Prince but Madeleine becomes Queen of Sweden and their first child will be in line to both the British and Swedish thrones.

2. Prince Henry could become King of Britain and Nothern Ireland and Madeleine remains a Princess but their first child will be in line to both thrones.

3. The both become monarchs in their respective countries and their first child is in line to both thrones.

4. Neither becomes a monarch but their first child becomes King of Sweden and then King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I'm sure others could come up with a much more complicated scenario in which this new King of Sweden and King of Britain and Northern Ireland would have children who end up getting married to heirs to the Dutch throne and where the Danish throne and Norwegian throne are already in personal union through a similar Henry-Madeleine scenario and then the final personal unification occurs when an heir to the Swedish-British-Dutch thrones marries an heir to the Danish-Norwegian thrones and produce a child that would be legally entitled to inherit all 5 thrones.

Madeleine would rather get a rich boy in New York than Harry. It will not work since they are second cousins and incest worked for the previous generations but not now.

You forgott 5. After Victoria died the support for the Swedish monarchy took a big nosedive and Madeleine dont have to become queen since the parliament voted for republic.

In Sweden the current stand on monarchy more or less stands and falls with crown princess Victoria and Daniel. The kings popularity is shrinking faster and faster, Madde and Carl-Philip are currently acting as spoiled brats that avoid anything that translate into working as royals.
 
Just as the title says: Are Personal Unions Still Possible in Modern Day?

For example could it be possible for say the British Monarch to marry the Japanese one and the child inherit both crowns and merge the two nations? Same could be said about any combination of nations from here:

World_Monarchies.png


red Absolute monarchy
orange Semi-constitutional monarchy
dark green Constitutional monarchy
light green Commonwealth realms (consitutional monarchies in personal union)
purple Subnational monarchies (traditional)

No, and how Canada still retained it's royal ties to Britain I'll never know or understand.
 

Devvy

Donor
Don't know why I failed to read the OP properly, completely escaped me! :)

With regards to Britain, while there isn't anything to outright prohibit it, it's just not going to happen. Realisitically, as with Prince Philip, the spouse will renounce their rights to the throne of their country in order to marry a royal from another country.

Barring Canada, Australia, NZ, C/W realms, I don't see any country accepting a monarch of another country as their own. The realms are a historical glitch, as they all have large amounts of immigrants from Britain and so historically share the Queen, but I don't see that lasting that long.
 
According to the Riksdag site, those provisions are still in force (articles 4 and 8). This incidentally would pose difficulties for a person occupying both Swedish and British thrones, as the British monarch is required to be a member of the Church of England. No such marriage as described is going to happen anyway. If it did and the issue ended up in direct line to both thrones a highly inconvenient personal union would still be avoided, presumably by the two eldest getting a throne apiece.

The requirement actually is for the British monarch to "join in communion with the Church of England as by law established", and I suppose a Lutheran could do that, but the idea still seems iffy. Another set of difficulties would be posed in the exceptionally improbable event of the Japanese and British thrones merging as suggested in the OP. The Japanese Emperor is required, not by law but by custom that is far more immutable, to perform pagan rituals which are in fact his raison d'être, as only the Emperor can do them and so keep peace between Japan and its gods. A Christian might I submit not be felt suitable for the tasks, nor might he consent to perform them.
 
I see Charl already answered himself before I answered him. In regards to Prince Harry and Princess Madeleine being second cousins, if they were that wouldn't exactly be incest, but they aren't. As far as I can see their closest relationship is though Queen Victoria, of whom Madeleine is twice a 3x great-granddaughter and Harry twice a 4x great-grandson. That makes them fourth cousins once removed. Two times, but I would still call it a pretty remote relationship.
 
Last edited:
For other countries the line of succession is more limited (e.g. Dutch line of succession is limited to those within 3 degrees of kinship to the current monarch), but nothing in the laws states that the monarch should be monarch of that country only .

Actually in Dutch law it is not possible for a monarch to rule another country than the Netherlands (or Luxemburg). So no peronal unions with the Netherlands are possible. Although I must admit that if the situation occurs (which is extremly unlikely), the law will probably be changed.

Besides that, in Belgian law it is stated that an Orange-Nassau can't become ruler of Belgium.
 
Top