ardennes forest is devastated by fire in 1932

As the title states the POD is a forest fire in 1932 that devastates the Ardennes forest. Now at this time the French were busy building the Maginot line which they believed would be impenetrable. The common misconsception is that the Maginot line was in fact porous and far from impenetrable. However what many people don't realize is that the Maginot line wasn't defeated so much as bypassed through Belgium and the Ardennes forest which the French thought couldn't happen. However what if in the early stages of constructing the line the forest burned down and the French had to consider the reality that they no longer could rely on the Ardennes preventing a German Armored advance? I would imagine that the immediate effects would be that the French would quickly begin planning and construction of an extension of the line to cover this area as well.

So my question to you is, how much does this help the French out? Since now the Germans would have a much harder time making a breakthrough along the French border, it at the very least makes victory in France much more difficult.
 

mowque

Banned
First, i like the type of POD...a different take!

Still, i think the French are still screwed. They will still be old-fashioned and backwards in doctrine. They will still rely on GB help to win a war (hence their caution in strategy) And they will still have a weak economy. Which leads me to my last question..Could France even afford to build more of the Line? i seem to remeber them having issue paying for it as it was.
 
As the title states the POD is a forest fire in 1932 that devastates the Ardennes forest. Now at this time the French were busy building the Maginot line which they believed would be impenetrable. The common misconsception is that the Maginot line was in fact porous and far from impenetrable. However what many people don't realize is that the Maginot line wasn't defeated so much as bypassed through Belgium and the Ardennes forest which the French thought couldn't happen.

Many people, yes, but not many people in this forum.

However what if in the early stages of constructing the line the forest burned down and the French had to consider the reality that they no longer could rely on the Ardennes preventing a German Armored advance?

Nice new idea, but you might do some homework now. How likely it is that the whole forest is burned down? Didn't the Belgians use firebreaks? In what season did this happen? And most importantly, if this happens in 1932, what will happen in 87 years? Aren't the Belgians going to plant trees again? Wouldn't the French expect this? How would they consider that newly planted wood, an obstacle or not?

Then there is the diplomacy. Isn't building a line as strong as the Maginot along the Belgian border a way of severing relations with the Belgians?

Then there is the air recon issue. The forest served wonderfully in 1940 to screen the advancing columns from air observation...
 
But was it the trees or was it the valleys/road system that made the Ardennes appear impenetrable?
 
Many people, yes, but not many people in this forum.



Nice new idea, but you might do some homework now. How likely it is that the whole forest is burned down? Didn't the Belgians use firebreaks? In what season did this happen? And most importantly, if this happens in 1932, what will happen in 87 years? Aren't the Belgians going to plant trees again? Wouldn't the French expect this? How would they consider that newly planted wood, an obstacle or not?

Then there is the diplomacy. Isn't building a line as strong as the Maginot along the Belgian border a way of severing relations with the Belgians?

Then there is the air recon issue. The forest served wonderfully in 1940 to screen the advancing columns from air observation...

I seem to remember they did spot the movement of the troops from the air, but the French generals didnt believe them! However fewer or smaller trees might make them believe. Or maybe not, the French general staff was staggeringly incompetant in 1940.
 
the french didn't seem to care too much about international relations when they planned to flank an advancing german army by passing through Belgium, neither did the rest of the entente when they planned as a contingency to conquer the low countries in the event that they remained neutral. they also didn't care too much about it when they let Czechoslovakia get annexed by the Germans and only sent a token offensive into germany after the invasion of Poland. I do beleive that the french would have done whatever necissary to defend themselves in spite of what other countries might think.

As far as burned up trees, dead trees are not as firmly rooted in the ground as living ones, also burning down the entire forest wouldn't be necissary, only a large enough path for the German army to advance through or one wide enough to scare the french anyways.
 
during the time of 1930s
Belgium was building they on version of the Maginot line or better say a extension of it

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festungsring_Lüttich
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/Festungsring_Luettich_Karte.png

Build near towns of Ében-Émael, Aubin-Neufchâteau, Battice and Tancrémont (near Pepinster)
the Fort des Waides near Manaihant and Fort of Sougné-Remouchamps, were Planned but never build.

they had to delay a german invasion until French and British troop are ready to attack the Germans Invasion.

but with the economic problems of the OTL, some bunker were bad equipt, with less or smaller Guns as planed
to make thinks worse the important bunker of Ében-Émael was used as correctional Boot camp by belgium military !
(in OTL chaos brake loose there, as the Wehrmacht Blitzkrieg came...)

but wat if after the Fire
French goverment give the Belgiums financial aid to complett ALL the Bunker as Planned ?

in that case a German invasion had allot trouble to get true this,
the Wehrmacht will invade the Netherlands for by pass the Defence lines...
 
I was also thinking that perhaps even without completing the line, the French at least realize that the Maginot Line isn't the impenetrable defensive premiter everybody thinks it is, so they actually do something about the German invasion of poland in order to pre-empt a German invasion of France, I wonder how things would have turned out with a large joint invasion of the German homeland that was well inside their own borders while they are still fighting the Polish. Perhaps in 32 the french would have stopped construction of the line and in stead focused on improving their military to make it an actual effective offensive force in stead of just defensive.
 
A forest fire doesn't often burn things completely to the ground. There could still be significant portions of the Ardennes with standing trees and deadwood. There would also be lots of thick underbrush still present after a decade or so of growth I'm not sure what trees make up the Ardennes, but the French and Belgians could decide to replant with fast growing trees, similar to American poplar or Southern pine. You can get some big trees that way. So, things might not change significantly at all.

Torqumada
 

mowque

Banned
Perhaps in 32 the French would have stopped construction of the line and in stead focused on improving their military to make it an actual effective offensive force in stead of just defensive.

They fundamentally can't do that. France could never win in a war toe-to-toe with Germany. They needed GB help (and more abstractly USA aid) to win. They couldn't go in guns blazing. They WANTED a long war, to wear Germany down via English aid. hence the defensive thought-process...
 
IMHO instead Belgium are building Bunkers

it had be better if they to blow up ALL bridges over the river Meuse to delay the German
at Liege, the german have to cross a 120 meter gap over river
(in OTL the Bridges only partly destroid)

so they had move south west, true narrow river Meuse valley to city of Namur

and the belgium Ardennes are not so easy to cross !

North there are the High Fens or moorland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fens

371px-P23%28map%29.jpg

you see how german and US troop have move around the High Fens in 1944
is between city of Eupen, Spa, Malmedy, Monschau, Schmidt

south Ardennes parts of just are too rough for Tanks
they have move the tanks zig zag true valleys

You got only two corridors to move very fast to West Belgium
At the City of Eupen to city of Aachen and at city of Malmedy to St. Vith
there several big roads to Liege

i know the belgium Ardennes, because I live and work there.
 
well as I recall, at the beginning of the war the Germans had almost no troops along the Border with France, and according to German officers stationed there the French could have easily overwhelmed them. Keep in mind that this is the French army of OTL, if their army is more capable of offensive capabilities, things would have been much better for the French. I wonder how Hitler would react to having a massive invasion of Germany while the bulk of the Wermacht is in the east.
 
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