Architectural WI: Rome in a surviving Empire?

Ok, so after my awesome trip to the Eternal City last week, this will be the first in a series of Rome-related threads I'm thinking about. Towards the end of the week, Italians of East Africa will probably get updated as well :cool:


The basic gist of this is: What might we expect the city of Rome to look like, absent the final collapse of the Roman Empire in the west?

Whether the POD is no Vandal Sack, no Sack of Alaric or even as late as no Gothic War is up to you - provided that Roman elites (and not Goths, Vandals or whatever Odoacer's people were) are in charge after the late 5th - early 6th century.

A few observations I would make - even in the dying days of the Empire, the Romans found the necessary means to repair the Colosseum following damage sustained during Alaric's brief vacation in Rome. In 523 AD, after the Roman state in the west had lost everything outside Italy, was ravaged by decades of plague, raids and warfare and was dominated by Theoderic and his Ostrogoths, Anicius Maximus saw fit to celebrate his consulship sine collega by organizing lavish hunts, to the extent that Theoderic was appaled by their cost and prohibited further such enterprizes (apparently he also used the building as a source of materials not long after that). Thus, I think it's fair to assume Roman elites would do everything in their power to keep the Flavian Amphitheater going, whether out of a sense of duty and pride, or as a means of ensuring their legitimacy.

Likewise, absent the destruction of the aqueducts, the Palatine Hill won't have to be virtually abandoned, even more so if the Imperial Palace is not destroyed.

Keeping the agricultural estates in central Italy around should IMO also help Rome keep its population of ~1/4 million properly fed.

Thus, how might the e.g. the Forum and Rome's center evolve over the years, given that they're not destroyed, but are instead the heart of a state controlling at least Italy, and maybe at times Carthage, Provence or eastern Spain?
 
Thus, how might the e.g. the Forum and Rome's center evolve over the years, given that they're not destroyed, but are instead the heart of a state controlling at least Italy, and maybe at times Carthage, Provence or eastern Spain?

Assuming Rome remains at the heart of a thriving trade network, but ceases to be a centre of imperial power, replaced by Ravenna or wherever, I wonder if it would start to move along the same route that the Roman cities Syria and Egypt were going even before the Arab conquests. Wide processional streets increasingly colonised by shops and markets, large new Christian monasteries, hospitals and orphanages arising inside and replacing older classical buildings, partial abandonment of traditional boundaries as the city expands and contracts with plague and economic currents?
 
Difficult to say, of course, because the various PoDs open up vast possibilities of divergences from OTL over the centuries. It also depends on what you mean by "surviving Empire", surviving into the present???
Church buildings would begin to mark the urban landscape nevertheless, with your PoDs. Improvements on the Aurelian Wall would continue, too, perhaps even more massive than OTL if Rome still remains a centre of power.

If you mean a surviving Empire into the present, then that`s open to complete speculation - for example, what would happen to economic, social, demographical, technological and political developments as we know them, which shaped urban landscapes much more than anything else in the last two centuries?
A Roman civilization where functioning public transportation prevails over individual automobile transportation, for example, would leave a Rome, Capital of the n-th Roman Republic, much more altered from OTL than anything that happened in the 5th, 6th or 7th centuries.
Also, cultural and theological divergences could do away with the differentiation of Catholicism, Protestantism etc., and even with the establishment of dozens of monastic orders, leading to a different sacral architecture.

Really, everything`s possible...
 

snip

Really, everything`s possible...


Probably true on both accounts.


Would be really interesting how people would view the ancient world if some of the grand public buildings of the time, like the Circus Maximus, Baths of Diocletian or Colosseum continued to be regularly used, albeit periodically repaired and modified, up to the present day.

Also, absent the destruction of the Imperial Archives, our knowledge of the period would probably be much greater.
 
Would be really interesting how people would view the ancient world if some of the grand public buildings of the time, like the Circus Maximus, Baths of Diocletian or Colosseum continued to be regularly used, albeit periodically repaired and modified, up to the present day.
While I agree on the public archives, I think periodically repaired and MODIFIED buildings you mention might actually not be as historically interesting and telling about the past as OTL´s equivalents. There are so many football stadiums larger than the Colosseum today, so many fun baths larger than Rome`s ancient ones, and a Circus Maximus with a huge folding roof for rainy days, on which advertisements of the big sponsors are painted or projected, might also not inspire thoughts about the past, either. Even if Rome`s football team would play in the biggest and oldest stadium in the world, modern protective fences and plastic seats would provide quite a different flair from OTL´s.
Sorry for being a killjoy here, but a survivng Rome would likely mean less "protected cultural heritage" and more pragmatic use and modernisation.
 

GdwnsnHo

Banned
While I agree on the public archives, I think periodically repaired and MODIFIED buildings you mention might actually not be as historically interesting and telling about the past as OTL´s equivalents. There are so many football stadiums larger than the Colosseum today, so many fun baths larger than Rome`s ancient ones, and a Circus Maximus with a huge folding roof for rainy days, on which advertisements of the big sponsors are painted or projected, might also not inspire thoughts about the past, either. Even if Rome`s football team would play in the biggest and oldest stadium in the world, modern protective fences and plastic seats would provide quite a different flair from OTL´s.
Sorry for being a killjoy here, but a survivng Rome would likely mean less "protected cultural heritage" and more pragmatic use and modernisation.

I don't see it unlikely that the Romans would designate some of their older buildings as Heritage Sites. With the expansion of cities over time Rome itself is going to be a much larger city, with many of the older buildings maintained purely as tourist sites, with newer buildings fulfilling the same purpose moving out of the city centre.

Honestly, as time progresses - and communication and logistics technologies improve, I think you might see someone make Rome the capital again. Not because it is ideal for communications or logistics, but purely for prestige. If the city becomes large enough that the only practical way to defend it is some solid fortifications in narrow mountain passes, and a decent fleet. In such circumstances, we could see Rome have a whole new Government district - repairs made to the old ruins to make them functional, but eventually abandoned in favor of other buildings closer to major roads.

However in general - I'd take a look at the architecture of Constantinople, Alexandria, Rome/Ravenna, and Treverorum. I'd expect Rome and Ravenna in a long-lasting united Roman Empire to be have their architecture deeply influenced by the styles in Constantinople - Hagia Sophia-style churches, etc.

Beyond that - I have no real idea. If the Western Empire is united and becomes prominent in a "Scramble for the New World" then Western styles will be introduced - which be anything - the introduction of slate tiling from Britain, or wind-towers from southern Spain.

We could have a period where Egypt becomes a big deal - due to an ATL Suez Canal, and generally trade from the East, introducing Indian, Chinese, Japanese, Indonesian aspects to their designs - and the conglomerate of ideas having influence throughout the Empire.

What might be amusing is the introduction of Russian Onions into common architecture, but I'd see that as unlikely.

There are so many factors to consider, that all I can do is suggest whom will have architectural influence at the time.
 
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