Architectural AHC/WI: British Versailles

So I was reading a book I had on various Royal palaces and something struck me as odd. In the late 17th and into the 18th centuries almost all of the continental monarchies went threw huge building campaigns, each trying to create a Palace to rival France's Versailles. From Peterhof in Russia to La Granja de San Ildefonso in Spain grand palaces spread threw Europe. However, Britain is a noticeable exception, with the various British Royal Palaces being found wanting when compared to these magnificent national treasures. So your challenge, should you choose to accept, is to create a British Versailles, or something similar. I don't mean actually design a Palace (though that would be VERY cool) but to say when such a palace could be built, who would be the architect and what the national response would be, either good or bad.
 
Well IOTL Charles II planned to create my local castle - Winchester Castle - into a royal palace that would rival Versailles. He even commissioned Wren to design the palace. James II then abandoned the project. Let's say James II and then William III choose to continue the project, we would likely see a 'Winchester Palace' that would rival Versaille, with a very Wren-like design.
 
In 1638 , Chas I wanted to rebuild Whitehall to rival Versailles. He commissioned Inigo Jones for the task, but the only part ever built was the Banqueting Hall . No money.
Ingo_Jones_plan_for_a_new_palace_at_Whitehall_1638.jpg


For scale. the present Banqueting House, one of the largest buildings in present Whitehall, forms a part (only) of the near left central courtyard.
 
In 1638 , Chas I wanted to rebuild Whitehall to rival Versailles. He commissioned Inigo Jones for the task, but the only part ever built was the Banqueting Hall . No money.
Ingo_Jones_plan_for_a_new_palace_at_Whitehall_1638.jpg


For scale. the present Banqueting House, one of the largest buildings in present Whitehall, forms a part (only) of the near left central courtyard.

I've read about Whitehall before and I think that would be the best bet. Though Whitehall would lack the gardens that other Versailles copies had, sense I can't imagine there would be a lot of room in the heart of London for huge gardens.

During this era the English/British monarchs tended to be foreigners.

Add in parliamentary control of the finaces and you've got problems funding royal palaces.

But that's not to say that very grand 'palaces' weren't built.

For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blenheim_Palace

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wentworth_Woodhouse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Howard


I meant Royal palaces, not the noble's various estates.
 
I've read about Whitehall before and I think that would be the best bet. Though Whitehall would lack the gardens that other Versailles copies had, sense I can't imagine there would be a lot of room in the heart of London for huge gardens.




I meant Royal palaces, not the noble's various estates.

In general, the main reason why Britain never got a Royal Versailles was because, unlike in France, Spain, Prussia or Russia, the Royal finances were constrained by Parliamentary supreamacy.

As is, Whitehall would span from approximately Westminster Square to Trafalgar, so it would actually get some large gardens in the form of landscaping in St. James' Park and beyond (Pall Mall and the buildings to the north weren't built until after the Fire of 1666).

There's already some large Royal Parks in the west of London's city centre, that area was very rural in the 17th Century so if we presume that finances are available for a new Palace, it will probably include buying some of the land near St. James's Park to expand the Gardens.
 
In 1638 , Chas I wanted to rebuild Whitehall to rival Versailles.

That can't have been his specific objective, because Versailles was just a little hunting lodge at this time. It didn't become a true château until later in the century, long after Charles's death.
 
Well IOTL Charles II planned to create my local castle - Winchester Castle - into a royal palace that would rival Versailles. He even commissioned Wren to design the palace. James II then abandoned the project. Let's say James II and then William III choose to continue the project, we would likely see a 'Winchester Palace' that would rival Versaille, with a very Wren-like design.

Sorry to bump this but I was thinking of this topic again. So what would a Winchester Palace look like? Assume for the benefit of the doubt that James II, William and Mary and Queen Anne stay interested in it. For funding, lets say on of there Monarch's manages to get parliament to fund it as some sort of National monument or pride work, a way to rival France in construction or something. Would we see the Royal Court and Government more permanently to Winchester, like we saw in France to Versailles?
 
Winchester palace did get built. I think it still exists, certainly did so in the 19C. Just not finished as a palace. It was used as barracks and as a prison for Napoleonic prisoners of war. Called the King's House. As finished just a great barracks of a place.

EDIT. Burned out and demolished in 1894 apparently. The site and some of the materials were used it is said to build the Peninsular Barracks which are extant
 
Winchester palace did get built. I think it still exists, certainly did so in the 19C. Just not finished as a palace. It was used as barracks and as a prison for Napoleonic prisoners of war. Called the King's House. As finished just a great barracks of a place.

EDIT. Burned out and demolished in 1894 apparently. The site and some of the materials were used it is said to build the Peninsular Barracks which are extant

Yeah I saw that the structure was completed but not much else. So what would the completed picture be like?
 
There are several royal residences in and around London that were used by british monarchs in the 17th through 19th centuries that saw substantial expansion in this era. Hampton Court Palace was significantly expanded for William and Mary and I'd say Sir Christopher Wrens south front looks indeed quite versaillesesque (though the use of bricks is more reminiscent of the Cour de Marbre than Versailles' sand stone garden façade).

800px-HamptonCurt.jpg


The first two hannovarian monarchs spent more time in Hannover (where they did build their Versailles copy) than in London. When George III became king he bought Buckingham house in 1761, which, over the next one and a half centuries was extended time and again to become what it is now and can thus also be regarded as quite a good Versailles or Louvre analogue.
 
I meant Royal palaces, not the noble's various estates.

That said, Versailles was basically a little noble estate on which was built the palace.
Beginning with these, may be an option critically if you search for huge lands for garden and forests.

You need several changes in British monarchy tough. As said, have the British monarch having more word to say on finances, but as well having him more autocratic power : Versailles was built not only on a manor, but also on a village, churches, farms, settlements, a windmill...

The king or royal court have to be allowed to expel people, even if they received a compensation for this, in order to build such palace.

Eventually, you need a population and noble acceptance of such works and centralization.
While it was considered as more or less legit in France eventually it was far less in first place among the court nobility and councillors.

The ultra-parlementazisation in Britain may be an huge obstacle here as well.

Finally, the long reign of Louis XIV managed to allow three big campaigns of construction (spaced because of wars) and to reach a result that, if unfinished, looked far better than the palace that was in constant building during most of Louis XIV reign (he basically reigned on his palace when the painters didn't have yet finished the second layer).

To resume you need :

- More authority of the king regarding finances
- More authority of the king regarding his subjects
- Power and influence of court's nobility or parliamentary elite being lowered
- Long reign.
 
That said, Versailles was basically a little noble estate on which was built the palace.
Beginning with these, may be an option critically if you search for huge lands for garden and forests.

You need several changes in British monarchy tough. As said, have the British monarch having more word to say on finances, but as well having him more autocratic power : Versailles was built not only on a manor, but also on a village, churches, farms, settlements, a windmill...

The king or royal court have to be allowed to expel people, even if they received a compensation for this, in order to build such palace.

Eventually, you need a population and noble acceptance of such works and centralization.
While it was considered as more or less legit in France eventually it was far less in first place among the court nobility and councillors.

The ultra-parlementazisation in Britain may be an huge obstacle here as well.

Finally, the long reign of Louis XIV managed to allow three big campaigns of construction (spaced because of wars) and to reach a result that, if unfinished, looked far better than the palace that was in constant building during most of Louis XIV reign (he basically reigned on his palace when the painters didn't have yet finished the second layer).

To resume you need :

- More authority of the king regarding finances
- More authority of the king regarding his subjects
- Power and influence of court's nobility or parliamentary elite being lowered
- Long reign.

More and more I'm thinking of incorporating a British Versailles into a Jacobite 1714 Coup TL I'm planning. I think such a Coup could get half of what you stated, more authority for finances and a long reign (James III would have reigned for 51/52 years from a date of 1714) and MAYBE a weakened Parliament, though I can't see more authority over subjects.

So going for a location, would Winchester still work? I mean it was picked by Charles II to be his version of Versailles so would it still work in 1714 onwards? Or would someplace around London work better?

Next, would the center of Government really shift to Winchester or would it merely be a sort of Royal town, important for the Crown and Court but not for the government?

Finally, IDK if the nobility would accept right off the bat, but remember they were still nobles. Most were just as obsessed with meaningless honors, titles and positions as the French Nobility were and wouldn't want to see someone else get them. So I can fairly easily see the nobles by and large flocking to Winchester, same as the French nobility.
 
Finally, IDK if the nobility would accept right off the bat, but remember they were still nobles. Most were just as obsessed with meaningless honors, titles and positions as the French Nobility were
Are you familiar with Fronde events?
Or the Polysynodie experimentation?

History isn't that close of Disney movies when it comes to nobility.

The nobles that went to Versailles were the upper nobility, the larger and lesser one staying on their own lands. See, it was expansive to live the court's life. The royal subventions were a way to keep courts nobles at range and dependent (with the issue the really important ones were still avoiding this, while being in the court).

For the emplacement, you need a somewhere close enough to London to still be next of many administration, and still have a direct influence on the city but not within, in order to avoid being the prey of revolts, parliamentarian influence, etc.

Winchester seems a bit too far for this.
 
The most likely site for such a new palace would be somewhere close to Hampton Court Palace (just like Versailles is close to the Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye - the Old Pretender will have known the letter well since he was raised there after his father was exiled after the Glorious Revolution and offered residence in that palace by Louis XIV) so that the King can visit the construction site regularly. It will also likely be close to the Thames so that he can go by boat to Westminster for the opening of parliament and other events there as well as in London.
 
As others have said Hampton Court Palace is pretty big and appropriately close to London. The British aristocracy by the 17th century was a lot less regionalised than it's French equivalents, the Wars of the Roses and the Reformation having destroyed the great Northern and Marcher Lords so Louis XIV's motivation to get his nobles away from their estates doesn't really apply. Still if you want a Baroque mega-palace then having William and Mary continue their renovations and then get someone else in to expand further.
 
The most likely site for such a new palace would be somewhere close to Hampton Court Palace (just like Versailles is close to the Château de Saint-Germain-en-Laye - the Old Pretender will have known the letter well since he was raised there after his father was exiled after the Glorious Revolution and offered residence in that palace by Louis XIV) so that the King can visit the construction site regularly. It will also likely be close to the Thames so that he can go by boat to Westminster for the opening of parliament and other events there as well as in London.
Maybe at Kew?
 
You need several changes in British monarchy tough. As said, have the British monarch having more word to say on finances, but as well having him more autocratic power : Versailles was built not only on a manor, but also on a village, churches, farms, settlements, a windmill...

Well, this wouldn't be an issue really. Half the grand houses of England had the gardens relandscaped by buldozing the local village. Keddleston and Castle Howard come to mind immediately.
 
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