Archduke John Charles, son of HRE Ferdinand II survives

As it says on the tin, Archduke John Charles, was until 1619, the eldest surviving son of Emperor Ferdinand II-he of the ultra counter reformation- having been born in 1605, one would assume that his cousin Maria Anna of Spain would be his wife, if he survives past 1619. My question is, what sort of person was he like, are there any sources that can help with that? Which would then help answer, what sort of policies might he pursue as emperor? What would become of his brother Ferdinand? Would his younger brother marry either his second or third wife sooner?
 
Regarding John Charles, there is little sources on him.

But regarding Ferdinand - he would be pushed into quasi-clerical career like Archduke Leopold was OTL, to provide him with income, so being unlikely to marry.
 
Regarding John Charles, there is little sources on him.

But regarding Ferdinand - he would be pushed into quasi-clerical career like Archduke Leopold was OTL, to provide him with income, so being unlikely to marry.

Ah interesting, I imagine then that their younger brother Leopold Wilhelm would remain as he was otl then perhaps? No marriage for him either?
 
Likely yes, par the course for this generation of Archdukes.

Which will undoubtedly increase pressure on John to have kids. Is there any place which could have a potential wealthy heiress at this point, to give Ferdinand some income separate to the church, or is the church looking likely
 

Vitruvius

Donor
I posted something about this a while ago, but looking at it from the English perspective. If John Charles had lived the he would have remained engaged to Maria Anna so she never would have been considered for Charles so the whole Spanish Match saga is butterflied away. Probably some important affects there.

As for Austria it would mean they have a spare. Ferdinand III was a fairly capable commander so he can now remain in the field when his father dies as its his older brother who becomes Emperor. Not sure if he'd marry, as he'd probably be given all the ecclesiastical fields that went to his brother Leopold Wilhelm IOTL. If it comes to it he could be made commander in treatment Spanish Netherlands if/when the Cardinal Infante dies. Leopold Wilhelm could actually be the one who ends up marrying. But given the early POD the 30YW could unfold differently by the time you get to the 1640s and John Charles is Emperor.

A lot would depend on his character and how willing he is to make concessions in the name of peace. There is always the possibility that the war is concluded sooner.
 
I posted something about this a while ago, but looking at it from the English perspective. If John Charles had lived the he would have remained engaged to Maria Anna so she never would have been considered for Charles so the whole Spanish Match saga is butterflied away. Probably some important affects there.

As for Austria it would mean they have a spare. Ferdinand III was a fairly capable commander so he can now remain in the field when his father dies as its his older brother who becomes Emperor. Not sure if he'd marry, as he'd probably be given all the ecclesiastical fields that went to his brother Leopold Wilhelm IOTL. If it comes to it he could be made commander in treatment Spanish Netherlands if/when the Cardinal Infante dies. Leopold Wilhelm could actually be the one who ends up marrying. But given the early POD the 30YW could unfold differently by the time you get to the 1640s and John Charles is Emperor.

A lot would depend on his character and how willing he is to make concessions in the name of peace. There is always the possibility that the war is concluded sooner.

Hmm interesting, I agree about the English marriage not being an option which could see them turn to France sooner.

As for John CHarles, I have this image in my head of him being kinda well read, an academic, and someone who wants peace instead of needless bloodshed. A catholic, but not uber catholic like his father. And perhaps a bit more tactically minded.
 
So going with this from another thread:

Anne of Austria had a very unfortunate history of pregnancies until Louis XIV and Philippe, Duke of Orleans were born.

My question is this, if this was the order of successful pregnancies what would change and who could the children marry?

Louis (b. 1626)

Anne Marie (b. 1631)

Philippe (b. 1638)

Elisabeth (b. 1643)


And if this went along with the following for Philip IV:

Maria Eugenia of Austria and Spain (b. 1625)

Isabella Maria Theresa of Spain (b. 1627)

Balthasar Carlos (b.1629)

Francis Ferdinand (b. 1634)

Maria Theresa of Spain (b.1638)
 
And combining it with this for John Charles:

Emperor John (b.1605) m Maria Anna of Spain (b.1606)

Issue:

Ferdinand Charles (b.1625)

Mariana of Austria (b. 1627)

Maximilian Thomas (b. 1630)

Maria Magdalena (b. 1633)
 
Maria Eugenia of Spain for Ferdinand Charles without any doubt...
Maria Anna of Austria for Balthasar Carlos at 80% (the other 20% being Anne Marie of France or Mary Henrietta, Princess Royal of England)
For Louis of France either Isabella of Spain, Maria Anna of Spain or Maria Henrietta of England
 
Maria Eugenia of Spain for Ferdinand Charles without any doubt...
Maria Anna of Austria for Balthasar Carlos at 80% (the other 20% being Anne Marie of France or Mary Henrietta, Princess Royal of England)
For Louis of France either Isabella of Spain, Maria Anna of Spain or Maria Henrietta of England

Okay that sounds good to me. I can see Ferdinand Charles being something of a mix of a good commander and an adequate administrator compared to the perfect administrator of his father.
 
As it says on the tin, Archduke John Charles, was until 1619, the eldest surviving son of Emperor Ferdinand II-he of the ultra counter reformation- having been born in 1605, one would assume that his cousin Maria Anna of Spain would be his wife, if he survives past 1619. My question is, what sort of person was he like, are there any sources that can help with that? Which would then help answer, what sort of policies might he pursue as emperor? What would become of his brother Ferdinand? Would his younger brother marry either his second or third wife sooner?

I've scoured a boatload of sources but it's like the kid was a ghost. That may be because he died so soon after dad became emperor and until then he was JUST ANOTHER archduke. But I've also asked around, and even Urbanus VII (who's usually pretty good at chasing down leads - and I figured for his original Isabelline Age TL he might've come across something) couldn't really be of much help.

As to your idea of what Johann Karl was like, he could well have been as you describe, but my money's on him being dad 2.0. The reason I say this is because Ferdinand III (like Leopold I) wouldn't have been surrounded by yes-men his whole life. Johann Karl/Ferdinand IV is the eldest son and heir, somebody that the courtiers are going to agree with even if it kills them, their younger brothers would've both spent their formative years with the spectre of a clerical career hanging over them, but also being curbed and stood-up to by tutors, rather than being given entirely their own way. That means that their personalities were already formed by the time they became heir. JK is heir from the moment of his birth (if not to the Empire, at least to his dad's portion of Austria), different kettle of fish.
 
I've scoured a boatload of sources but it's like the kid was a ghost. That may be because he died so soon after dad became emperor and until then he was JUST ANOTHER archduke. But I've also asked around, and even Urbanus VII (who's usually pretty good at chasing down leads - and I figured for his original Isabelline Age TL he might've come across something) couldn't really be of much help.

As to your idea of what Johann Karl was like, he could well have been as you describe, but my money's on him being dad 2.0. The reason I say this is because Ferdinand III (like Leopold I) wouldn't have been surrounded by yes-men his whole life. Johann Karl/Ferdinand IV is the eldest son and heir, somebody that the courtiers are going to agree with even if it kills them, their younger brothers would've both spent their formative years with the spectre of a clerical career hanging over them, but also being curbed and stood-up to by tutors, rather than being given entirely their own way. That means that their personalities were already formed by the time they became heir. JK is heir from the moment of his birth (if not to the Empire, at least to his dad's portion of Austria), different kettle of fish.

Hmm this is true, so, perhaps some of that radical Catholicism in his blood, and perhaps some administrative talent?
 
Okay that sounds good to me. I can see Ferdinand Charles being something of a mix of a good commander and an adequate administrator compared to the perfect administrator of his father.
Possible, Habsburg need a little luck for keeping together the Empire
Maria Eugenia of Spain for Ferdinand Charles without any doubt...
Maria Anna of Austria for Balthasar Carlos at 80% (the other 20% being Anne Marie of France or Mary Henrietta, Princess Royal of England)
For Louis of France either Isabella of Spain, Maria Anna of Spain or Maria Henrietta of England

I have forgotten to add Anne Marie Louise of Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier at the list of the possible brides for Louis
 
Possible, Habsburg need a little luck for keeping together the Empire


I have forgotten to add Anne Marie Louise of Orléans, Duchess of Montpensier at the list of the possible brides for Louis

Oh this is very true. It certainly breeds a lot of possibilities if things go well for them.
 

Vitruvius

Donor
I'm curious why we'd assume that John Charles living would result in more of Philip and Louis' children living. Obviously the famously absurd trip and fall miscarriage that Anne had in 1622 could be butterflied away and I suppose if that happens the marriage would remain happier possibly resulting in more children. With Philip on the other hand I'm not sure why it would be any more likely that he and Elisabeth would have a brood of healthy children just because his sister married a different Archduke.
 
I'm curious why we'd assume that John Charles living would result in more of Philip and Louis' children living. Obviously the famously absurd trip and fall miscarriage that Anne had in 1622 could be butterflied away and I suppose if that happens the marriage would remain happier possibly resulting in more children. With Philip on the other hand I'm not sure why it would be any more likely that he and Elisabeth would have a brood of healthy children just because his sister married a different Archduke.
Oh that wasn’t my intention, it was more a case or several different pods coalescing together for a future timeline. Thought I’d post it hear though for my own clarity aha
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Ok, well I would assume given the age similarities that the children of John Charles and Leopold V of Tyrol would probably be matched up with each other unless Philips luck changes and a Spanish bride older than Maria Theresa is available.
 
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