archduke Ferdinand survives

Alright interesting, I do
Wonder what changes if that doesn't occur at all.

War of the Jülich Succession was described by one writer as a dress rehearsal for the 30YW, much the same as the Franco-Prussian War was seen as a dress-rehearsal for WWI. However, if this doesn't happen - either because Karl Friedrich is alive, or because the emperor is free to arbitrate in the matter - it could vary the result. If Karl Friedrich survives, the emperor IMHO could be interested in preventing him from going Protestant and/or aiding the Dutch rebels. If Johann Wilhelm dies without kids, and there's no fraternal intrigue, Ferdinand II might be able to arbitrate fairly (although he'd risk pissing the party he decides against off - Hohenzollern vs. Wittelsbach, and in some cases it might spread like a cancer to the rest of the house decided against) and preserve some semblance of imperial authority; the emperor might be able to seize the states for himself or his family (which was feared that Rudolf would do, OTL, which, as @Vitruvius pointed out, led to Brandenburg-Pfalz-Neuberg making a deal in the backroom). Here, if the emperor successfully seizes it and holds it (perhaps he's married to Sibylle of Cleves and he claims it in right of her or their kids), neither Brandenburg nor Pfalz-Neuberg is powerful enough to take on the emperor themselves (it gets more worrying if they get their whole families in on the deal, cause then half of Germany is up in arms on the deal.)
 
War of the Jülich Succession was described by one writer as a dress rehearsal for the 30YW, much the same as the Franco-Prussian War was seen as a dress-rehearsal for WWI. However, if this doesn't happen - either because Karl Friedrich is alive, or because the emperor is free to arbitrate in the matter - it could vary the result. If Karl Friedrich survives, the emperor IMHO could be interested in preventing him from going Protestant and/or aiding the Dutch rebels. If Johann Wilhelm dies without kids, and there's no fraternal intrigue, Ferdinand II might be able to arbitrate fairly (although he'd risk pissing the party he decides against off - Hohenzollern vs. Wittelsbach, and in some cases it might spread like a cancer to the rest of the house decided against) and preserve some semblance of imperial authority; the emperor might be able to seize the states for himself or his family (which was feared that Rudolf would do, OTL, which, as @Vitruvius pointed out, led to Brandenburg-Pfalz-Neuberg making a deal in the backroom). Here, if the emperor successfully seizes it and holds it (perhaps he's married to Sibylle of Cleves and he claims it in right of her or their kids), neither Brandenburg nor Pfalz-Neuberg is powerful enough to take on the emperor themselves (it gets more worrying if they get their whole families in on the deal, cause then half of Germany is up in arms on the deal.)
Interesting seeing Ferdinand pull out the stops to prevent Karl from going Protestant would in my opinion be fascinating to see. Religious and secular arguments being used
 
War of the Jülich Succession was described by one writer as a dress rehearsal for the 30YW, much the same as the Franco-Prussian War was seen as a dress-rehearsal for WWI. However, if this doesn't happen - either because Karl Friedrich is alive, or because the emperor is free to arbitrate in the matter - it could vary the result. If Karl Friedrich survives, the emperor IMHO could be interested in preventing him from going Protestant and/or aiding the Dutch rebels. If Johann Wilhelm dies without kids, and there's no fraternal intrigue, Ferdinand II might be able to arbitrate fairly (although he'd risk pissing the party he decides against off - Hohenzollern vs. Wittelsbach, and in some cases it might spread like a cancer to the rest of the house decided against) and preserve some semblance of imperial authority; the emperor might be able to seize the states for himself or his family (which was feared that Rudolf would do, OTL, which, as @Vitruvius pointed out, led to Brandenburg-Pfalz-Neuberg making a deal in the backroom). Here, if the emperor successfully seizes it and holds it (perhaps he's married to Sibylle of Cleves and he claims it in right of her or their kids), neither Brandenburg nor Pfalz-Neuberg is powerful enough to take on the emperor themselves (it gets more worrying if they get their whole families in on the deal, cause then half of Germany is up in arms on the deal.)

Marie Eleonore or Anna might be better match. Closer in age range as well, so if they get started early say around 19-20 yrs old; we could see a brood of kids like his father before him. And overlapping claims by marriage & Imperial privileges. Would Ferdinand be able to force Rudolf to get married? And how much of Rudolf not marrying blocked his brothers opportunities of starting their own households earlier?
 
Last edited:
Marie Eleonore or Anna might be better match. Closer in age range as well, so if they get started early say around 19-20 yrs old; we could see a brood of kids like his father before him. And overlapping claims by marriage & Imperial privileges. Would Ferdinand be able to force Rudolf to get married? And how much of Rudolf not marrying blocked his brothers opportunities of starting their own households earlier?
I don't think
Rudolf could deny the
Emperor request that he marry
 

Vitruvius

Donor
But on the other hand Rudolf, as a second son, not marrying isn't a big deal. In fact it would be easier if he didn't since there's no territory to grant him to support his household. That's why Max didn't marry and Albert likely wouldn't have either had he not been forced to leave the church he and marry Isabella Clara Eugenia after Ernst died.
 
But on the other hand Rudolf, as a second son, not marrying isn't a big deal. In fact it would be easier if he didn't since there's no territory to grant him to support his household. That's why Max didn't marry and Albert likely wouldn't have either had he not been forced to leave the church he and marry Isabella Clara Eugenia after Ernst died.
This is true, could butterflies give Philip more surviving sons?
 
But on the other hand Rudolf, as a second son, not marrying isn't a big deal. In fact it would be easier if he didn't since there's no territory to grant him to support his household. That's why Max didn't marry and Albert likely wouldn't have either had he not been forced to leave the church he and marry Isabella Clara Eugenia after Ernst died.

True, or he might marry morganatically, to the mother of his son. Maybe he didn't marry because he wanted to marry her but couldn't as Emperor. Though that seems somewhat unlikely as from what I understand he'd feigned interest or was interested at points here and there with other princesses.
 
True, or he might marry morganatically, to the mother of his son. Maybe he didn't marry because he wanted to marry her but couldn't as Emperor. Though that seems somewhat unlikely as from what I understand he'd feigned interest or was interested at points here and there with other princesses.
That is interesting
 
How fun would it be if TTL Ferdinand II marries his Cleves wife, and they have nothing but (2/3) daughters? Does one marry a Spanish infante, one an Inner Austrian archduke and the last either abroad or fetched up in a convent?
 
Top