Araldyana - Rome in the West

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Pischinovski, Aug 21, 2016.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...
  1. SlyDessertFox O'Rourke/Gillum 2020! Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Is this going where I think it is? :winkytongue:
     
  2. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    That depends on where you believe this is going Ms. Portman :openedeyewink:
     
    SlyDessertFox likes this.
  3. darthfanta Offline

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Alaric becomes the new magister militum and the puppet master of the Western Roman throne?
     
  4. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    Why not go east? Right now the East is in the hands of the chamberlaine Eutropius who, whilst quit accepting of Barbarians, has to deal with a great mass of (Greuthungian) Goth soldiers in Constantinople. They could rise in favor of Alaric. The East is also richer. The West of course is weaker, an easier target.

    Time will tell.:angel: ;)
     
  5. darthfanta Offline

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2015
    Except the East isn't a complete wreck like the West.To my knowledge,the Eastern Army during this period while being reliant on foederati,most of the army largely still consists of Romans and non-Germanic mercenaries like Isaurians and Armenians.It's why the East was able to liquidate the Germanic component of the army easily later on.Heck,when the Goths tried to rise up in Constantinople,they got ripped apart by the Constantinopolitan mob!
     
  6. RyuDrago Italian? Yes, but also Roman

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2010
    Location:
    Italy
    Well, interesting turn of events. Still indeed, the West is still an unstable wreck, I guess the divergence can only determine which parts of the WRE will fall first and worse than OTL (albeit, still remembering certain parts of the project, I hope in this version Pischinovski would be more clement towards... Well I won't spoil further things) and which ones would instead resist the collision with the barbarians...
     
  7. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    I read some of my original stuff yesterday. Despite doing this TL from scratch again I noticed quite a few parallels to the original. This TL will hopefully be easier to understand and more plausible.
    I will not use made up people anymore like I did in the original. Chapters wont be covering two years anymore instead they will cover as much or as little time as I feel is neccessary (Chapter II.III. covers 2.5 years; II.VI. covers only a few weeks).

    I'll try to stay close to OTL with the death toll - a lot of people are going to die. ;)
     
  8. Agricola Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Location:
    Germania Superior
    I am afraid yes. Well, not a bad option.
    But it needs way more than Alaric to avoid the Fall of the West.

    Just if avoiding the Fall is the purpose of this TL at all. Perhaps the author just wants to write a nice and entertaining novel? So far it was entertaining. I hope, the enlightenment will follow soon. ;)

    PS: I just lately read a dissertation about usurpations during the late empire. The author showed, that in the 5th century a new kind of usrpation arose. Usurpators in the West did no longer usurp for emperor, but for magister militum. If Alaric could just change that highly detrimental shit, he would be my hero.

    PSS: Has Alaric a son? And is his son born as a roman citizen like the son of Orestes? ;)
    Sorry for my stuoid question. I have not read your initial TL.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  9. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    I can say that much: The Western Empire will do slightly better than OTL. :)

    AFAIK Edward Gibbon claimed that Theodoric I of the Visigoths was the son of Alaric, but this is based on Roman sources calling Theodoric's sons grandsons of Alaric. But no writer in antiquity ever claimed that Theodoric was his son, which is odd because you would think that this would be worth noting. Not even Jordanes.
    Theodoric might instead have been Alaric's son-in-law.

    We also knowning nothing about Alaric's wife/wives or the rest of his family. His OTL successor Athaulf was propably his brother-in-law. Was he married to Alaric's sister or Alaric to his sister? We don't know.

    Alaric is by 397 propably in his late 20's or maybe early 30's, making it feasable to believe that he could father more children than IOTL.

    Both Stilicho and Athaulf tried in OTL to marry into the imperial dynasty. Stilicho did so succesfully. His wife was the niece of Theodosius and he married his daughters to Honorius and his son to Theodosius' daughter Galla Placidia. Than he was murdered ...

    Athaulf married Galla Placidia several years later and fathered a child with her called Theodosius. The boy died an infant but naming him after his grandfather the emperor is clearly a sign that the Goths, even after sacking the city of Rome a few years prior, still were not willing to break with the empire wholly.

    Could Alaric claim the purple himself? Maybe, but he is a Barbarian in the eyes of most Romans and trying to usurp the East or the West would certainly trigger a civil war.
     
    SlyDessertFox likes this.
  10. Agricola Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Location:
    Germania Superior
    I guess, there is a reason why Stilicho's wife survived in your TL?

    Regarding a german emperor: This might cause a civil war. But was'nt it long overdue? Is'nt it a must have these days, if you really like to change something substantially in the West? Or will it lead the WRE to even more chaos and anarchy?

    The roman senate worked pretty well with Odoacer and later Theoderic. Better than with their eastern roman counterparts. By very good reasons!

    It is up to you dude :)

    PS: If Alaric comes with the Illyricum as dowry to the WRE. Everybody in the ERE would be pissed off and moan heavily. But nobody with a brain in the ERE would dare to attack the West with the Goths now fighting for Ravenna.

    PSS: I am looking forward to how you deal with these other Goths under the command of Radagaisus some decades later. They are much more important for the Fall of Rome imho, than Alaric.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  11. SlyDessertFox O'Rourke/Gillum 2020! Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    It might make sense from the empires long term prospects standpoint, but from the standpoint of the generals being emperor had a lot of drawbacks and most of its benefits could be achieved via being the magister militum anyway.
     
  12. Agricola Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2013
    Location:
    Germania Superior
    So why Orestes implemented Romulus Augustulus? Because Orestes was an idiot?
     
  13. SlyDessertFox O'Rourke/Gillum 2020! Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2012
    Location:
    New Jersey, USA
    Because Orestes could easily control him.
     
    Spartacus1224 likes this.
  14. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    All the chapters I have written (and more or less ready) are roughly 1000 - 3000 words long.

    How do you as a reader feel about the lenght of each update?
    Do you feel they are too short, too long or just about right?

    My personal favorite timeline on AH.com is @Carp 's wonderfully written "Sons of the Harlot Empress". His last update is more than 5000 words long and I really loved it.
     
  15. EmperorOfTheNorthSea Sovereign of all Scandinavia and the Rus

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2015
    Location:
    NUUURF COORALINA
    Your size now seems good as long as you have regular 2-3 day updates
     
  16. Practical Lobster scuttling across the floors of silent seas Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2014
    Location:
    Deep beneath the waves
    Length is up to you and your personal preference. However long it takes to tell a segment of the story you want to tell is fine, I think.
     
    Pischinovski likes this.
  17. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    Thank you for the input. This timeframe is frankly impossible for me while studying at university and having a toddler at home.
    An update every 1-2 weeks is more what I have in mind.
     
    Steve Bigpockets likes this.
  18. My Username is Inigo Montoya Virile Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2010
    Location:
    Brussels, Belgium
    ...congratulations? Boy or girl? :)
     
    Pischinovski likes this.
  19. Kurt_Steiner That's a years supply!

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2004
    Location:
    Barcelona, Catalunya
    Very interesting, indeed...
     
    Pischinovski likes this.
  20. Pischinovski Old Pauperized Polish Nobility

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    A girl :)
    Thanks :)
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.