Aragonese Language

How would the Aragonese language have fared in an independent Aragon in relation to Catalan? Would it have even been possible, given the nature of the union of the realms of the Aragonese Crown, for Catalan to have become the language of the administration*?

Also, given my knowledge of Iberia in the fourteenth century is not the best, was Catalan already the language of the elite in the realms of the Crown of Aragon by the time of the Catholic Kings and what was the status of Aragonese at that time?

*The King's Chancery still used both Aragonese and Catalan equally up until the Neuva Planta decrees
 
How would the Aragonese language have fared in an independent Aragon in relation to Catalan? Would it have even been possible, given the nature of the union of the realms of the Aragonese Crown, for Catalan to have become the language of the administration*?

Also, given my knowledge of Iberia in the fourteenth century is not the best, was Catalan already the language of the elite in the realms of the Crown of Aragon by the time of the Catholic Kings and what was the status of Aragonese at that time?

*The King's Chancery still used both Aragonese and Catalan equally up until the Neuva Planta decrees

First, Aragonese is no more liguistically distinct of the castillan language than catalan is from occitan or asturo-leonese from castillan : it's basically an Ausbau languag.

That said, i don't think it's possible as long you keep the OTL institution of the Aragonese-Catalan confederation. Or you use an *Aragon created from Catalonia by conquest, or an *Aragon half-conquered by Castille like Navarre was OTL.
The main problem is that the different kingdoms were quite well cloisoned regardind administration, in order to prevent the overhelming of a catalan elite.
 
First, Aragonese is no more liguistically distinct of the castillan language than catalan is from occitan or asturo-leonese from castillan : it's basically an Ausbau languag.

That said, i don't think it's possible as long you keep the OTL institution of the Aragonese-Catalan confederation. Or you use an *Aragon created from Catalonia by conquest, or an *Aragon half-conquered by Castille like Navarre was OTL.
The main problem is that the different kingdoms were quite well cloisoned regardind administration, in order to prevent the overhelming of a catalan elite.

I think Aragonese having more Occitan Influence might make it a more different language than OTL.
 
I think Aragonese having more Occitan Influence might make it a more different language than OTL.
Remember, we're talking Kingdom of Aragon alone, not Crown of Aragon. How is Aragon going to have more Occitan influence?

Also btw, been meaning to ask you about a Plantagenet POD.... anyway you think John of Gaunt can actually make himself King of Castile over Juan Trastamara?
 
Remember, we're talking Kingdom of Aragon alone, not Crown of Aragon. How is Aragon going to have more Occitan influence?

Also btw, been meaning to ask you about a Plantagenet POD.... anyway you think John of Gaunt can actually make himself King of Castile over Juan Trastamara?
Depends, but I had been fancying over a Capetian Castile-Portugal ruled by the Portuguese Burgundian(Capetian) lineage but a Plantagenet Spain or Castile is also interesting but I doubt it would survive..

He is a part of the POD of the late middle ages tl I made which I incorporated in another timeline with a Plantagenet Sicily.

I think Aquitaine or Guyenne could incorporate the Kingdom of Aragon instead of Barcelona merging with Aragon via a marriage..which Endymion pointed out, I think it could partially 'Occitanize' Aragon more than OTL.
 
I think Aquitaine or Guyenne could incorporate the Kingdom of Aragon instead of Barcelona merging with Aragon via a marriage..which Endymion pointed out, I think it could partially 'Occitanize' Aragon more than OTL.

It's very, very very unlikely.

First, you have almost not praticabke passes between Guiana and Aragon, and therefore limited exchanges. It's basically why Aragon survives as independent from late carolingians : because it was isolated from Francia, from Aquitania and was more close to non-carolingian kingdoms as Navarra.

Second, as i said quite often : medieval marriages didn't worked that way for most of time. Especially if you made them happen in the earlier era (let's say Ramnulfid one), you'll have great chances to find back an independent Aragon in 50 years.
And, even if it was such an union, in order to avoid the aragonese elites revolt themselves, as fearing to be overthrowed by aquitain or anything else elites, you'll have a contractual agreement about letting the aragonese nobles in charge with their customs and laws (as it happened OTL for almost every dynastic union).

The only way to occitanize Aragon is to have a far ealier grasp of occitano-romans pre-feudal or feudal states in the mountains. It supposes or a less swrewed up gallo-roman survivance of Septimania/Tarraconesa (it's basically what i'll use of my TL) or a more focused carolingian Marca around Saragossa without conquering the city itself, and having then a occitano-roman principality in the Marca instead of a dust of counties.
 
Also, given my knowledge of Iberia in the fourteenth century is not the best, was Catalan already the language of the elite in the realms of the Crown of Aragon by the time of the Catholic Kings and what was the status of Aragonese at that time?

Each of the 4 kingdoms in the Crown had its own administration and used its own vernacular language along with Latin. When the administratives of the 4 got together they tended to use Catalan because it was the majority (Catalonia & Majorca used it, while only Aragon used Aragonese; in Valencia the language spoken in the interior was Aragonese but the one in the capital and the cities of the litoral was Catalan so was the administration) unless the king happened to prefer Aragonese for some odd reason.

Following the coronation of Ferdinand of Antequera in 1412 Castilian also becomes one of the languages of the court and slowly gains speakers in the urban centers following the dynastic union at the end of the century. Say, the Generalitat continued using Catalan until the Nueva Planta decrees, but I've read that by the reign of Philip II the language of the merchant classes in Barcelona was already Castilian/Spanish. Same for Valencia.
 
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