Arab names for America

Hey, look.

Not trying to get on to you here or moderate but you have really derailed this thread. I wanted this discussion to be productive because it's relevant to a TL idea I'm working on and now I can't even scroll through and read it.

You're not quite being a troll, but that doesn't mean you're not intentionally being a bit annoying. I understand that you're passionate about being right but plenty of people who understand what Dar al Islam means have repeatedly tried to explain it to you. Just because you don't understand doesn't mean you should argue.

Again I'm not trying to get on your case here, but would you please mind stopping this nonsense so that maybe page three of this thread can have something productive on it for those of us who are really interested?

I'm saying please.
 
Al-Kabir Gharb or Al-Baida Gharb (Great West or Far West) could be, if unimaginative, quite useful, alone or with complement as Al-Baida Dar.

(I'm sure I didn't translated it correctly, it's to be checked)

Along the same lines "Al Gharb Jadida" the New West. There is after all wadi al jadid (the new valley) so it wouldn't be too out of place. We would have to imagine what land south america would resemble to the explorers - north africa is too arid, what tropical land would they be familiar with? it could be thatplace jadid.

Then there is of course the personnameland, so it might be named after some guy.

In any case, it would very much depend on who is doing the exploring. Is it safe to assume we are imagining a failed reconquista -> surviving al andalus? that would be the most interesting (with people with names like Garsiya) but i'm not sure about what they call "land". Bilad is more peninsular arabic IIRC.
 

Sabot Cat

Banned
How about Djinnestan for North America? It's said to have abandoned locales [which would be consistent with Smallpox depopulation], and its allegedly near Mount Qaf, a mysterious mountain at the farthest point of the earth at the North Pole.
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
Hey, look.

Not trying to get on to you here or moderate but you have really derailed this thread. I wanted this discussion to be productive because it's relevant to a TL idea I'm working on and now I can't even scroll through and read it.

First of all a discussion is a two way thing, if you look back you'll notice I made one suggestion, which was dismissed out of hand, and I gave reasons that dismissal may have been invalid. Since then I have simply replied to posts made at me, and sorry but as long as people want to debate it I will reply to them, maybe you should ask them instead not to make any further posts. But then again that's not how a discussion forum works, you can't just shut down other posters, unless of course you're a mod. Moreover some of the posts made to me (or at me, or about me) have been simply repetitions of previous points which I have already answered, so I think maybe you should be taking it up with them as they are the ones who have made needless posts imo.

You're not quite being a troll, but that doesn't mean you're not intentionally being a bit annoying. I understand that you're passionate about being right

Again, I'm not really bothered, I am frequently wrong and am happy to admit when I am, but in this case I see no evidence of that. If any evidence is presented then I'll be happy to admit to being wrong.

but plenty of people who understand what Dar al Islam means have repeatedly tried to explain it to you.

I answered all those posts, and nobody really responded to me as such, they either reiterrated the same points again or brought in other points. Btw I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but that particular phrasing comes across really patronising. Which ironically is somewhat hypocritical after accusing me of being intentionally annoying..

Just because you don't understand doesn't mean you should argue.

Again that sounds very patronising, I fully understand their position and made clear why I disagreed. As I said before let's agree to disagree. It seems to be everybody else that can't let it go. And I'm sorry but I'm not going to be insulted or intimidated into silence, that's just stupid.

Again I'm not trying to get on your case here, but would you please mind stopping this nonsense so that maybe page three of this thread can have something productive on it for those of us who are really interested?

I'm saying please.

Sorry but if someone makes a post directly to me, or about me, I'll respond. You could ask them if they'll stop replying to me I suppose, but it somewhat misses the point of a discussion forum.
 
Along the same lines "Al Gharb Jadida" the New West. There is after all wadi al jadid (the new valley) so it wouldn't be too out of place. We would have to imagine what land south america would resemble to the explorers - north africa is too arid, what tropical land would they be familiar with? it could be thatplace jadid.

Then there is of course the personnameland, so it might be named after some guy.

In any case, it would very much depend on who is doing the exploring. Is it safe to assume we are imagining a failed reconquista -> surviving al andalus? that would be the most interesting (with people with names like Garsiya) but i'm not sure about what they call "land". Bilad is more peninsular arabic IIRC.

It could be that some of the crew that reaches the New World have previously traded in the Indian Ocean, so they would know about India, southeast Asia and east Africa. It would be rather ironic if parts of the New World are named after India in another timeline.

How about Djinnestan for North America? It's said to have abandoned locales [which would be consistent with Smallpox depopulation], and its allegedly near Mount Qaf, a mysterious mountain at the farthest point of the earth at the North Pole.

That seems rather romantic, maybe it becomes a poetic name for North America or the Amazon basin, those places ended up rather depopulated.
 

Morty Vicar

Banned
I'm not 100% on this translation, I can't find any other source to back it up. But according to this 'Balad' means 'vast open country' (which somehow gave rise to 'bled' (?)) - vast and open seems appropriate for the plains and deserts of North America.
 
It would be rather ironic if parts of the New World are named after India in another timeline.
Wouldn't the fact Arabo-Islamic traders actually dwelled quite importantly in these parts of the world would prevent the confusion between a far more known Asia (and particularly Indias) and a totally different region?

That seems rather romantic, maybe it becomes a poetic name for North America or the Amazon basin, those places ended up rather depopulated.
Well, California is named for a fictional book character, so there's room for romantical names. That said, I would think Morrocan, Berber or Muslim Subsahrian African folklore and cultural referrents to be far more likely than Arab per se.

Then there is of course the personnameland, so it might be named after some guy.
It seems to be rarer in Arabo-Islamic toponimy : not really absent, as in Gibraltar, but more tied to precise points. I agree that a metonimy may do it, but it should be a rather important place to "expand" itself to a whole continent.

Let's take the exemple of "Jazir al Musa", for say Manhattan. If this town becames the main, if not only waypoint entry of *America, it may go to designate the continent as a whole (first, as you use capitols city to name countries : Moscow for Russia), while the city itself eventually using "Madinat al Musa" or "Madinat at [something]", leaving "Jazir al Musa" for naming at least a big part of a continent (as Louisiana IOTL).

It's a bit far-fetched, but I see it as one of the more doable ways of reaching it.
 
Wouldn't the fact Arabo-Islamic traders actually dwelled quite importantly in these parts of the world would prevent the confusion between a far more known Asia (and particularly Indias) and a totally different region?

I didn't mean as a misconception as in OTL but as in being named after India, as some areas of India are tropical, and some areas of the Americas are tropical.
 
I didn't mean as a misconception as in OTL but as in being named after India, as some areas of India are tropical, and some areas of the Americas are tropical.

I would think that Arabo-Islamic discoverers would find more similarity on this with subsaharian Africa : less known, more "wild", a developped legendarium about gold, etc. It could have the same "exotic" feel than India had for Europeans.
It's possible that American natives would be named "Zenj", and at least part of the land "Zenji-bar" (Slave Coast) eventually with something as Al Gharb Zenji-bar?
 
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How about Djinnestan for North America? It's said to have abandoned locales [which would be consistent with Smallpox depopulation], and its allegedly near Mount Qaf, a mysterious mountain at the farthest point of the earth at the North Pole.

In Arabic would be "Bilad al-jinn" or "Jazirat al-jinn". "Jinnestan" would be a Persianate form. (That encyclopedic entry is quite not entirely accurate).
 
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