Arab Conquests Without Islam

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
You completely avoided my point. Who or what could possibly unite the Arabs in time to exploit the temporary weakness of both empires after the Great War?

Making one religion into the official religion for the whole empire, it would likely be some form of Christianity (probably the Nestorian form). This process happened to the Germanic tribes which invaded the Western Roman Empire and the Mongols.

In this TL Persian civilization re-merges in a Nestorian Christian form, although absorbing a lot of Zoroastrian influence.
 
You completely avoided my point. Who or what could possibly unite the Arabs in time to exploit the temporary weakness of both empires after the Great War?

The Arabs may not even need to be united to defeat the Empires to the north, at least the Sassanids. Several centuries after the rise of Islam, the Qarmatians give us an interesting example of a fairly small Arab conglomerate in the east, that could essentially through the force of arms, create a hegemony over the entire Mid East. All that is required, is a certain similar section of tribes gain a fanatical loyalty to a cause and be of fearsome quality to be a serious threat to the Sassanid order. I am convinced that even simply a Nejd-Ahsa confederation or Qarmatians analogous could topple the order in the Mid East, just as the Qarmatians nearly did to the Abbasids.
 
You completely avoided my point. Who or what could possibly unite the Arabs in time to exploit the temporary weakness of both empires after the Great War?

In the OP, I suggested spotting the Himyarites a Great Man in the Julius Caesar mould who staves off Axumite conquest and sets the stage for the kingdom uniting Arabia. Such a state could then launch further conquests. This would also likely make the elite class of Arabia Jewish rather than Muslim, which would have interesting implications for the Arab conquests.
 
Making one religion into the official religion for the whole empire, it would likely be some form of Christianity (probably the Nestorian form). This process happened to the Germanic tribes which invaded the Western Roman Empire and the Mongols.

In this TL Persian civilization re-merges in a Nestorian Christian form, although absorbing a lot of Zoroastrian influence.

why nestorianism instead of monophysite?
 

Teejay

Gone Fishin'
why nestorianism instead of monophysite?

Nestorians were more dominant in the region of Mesopotamia which the Persians ruled. Monophysites were more dominant in the provinces of the Roman Empire.

Good question, I have been doing some thinking on it and come to an interesting conclusion. So I believe the Arabs would become Ebonite or Arian Christians and that form of Christianity become dominant in the Middle East. I do believe in OTL that Ebonite Christianity had a significant following even in the 6th and 7th centuries (along with Arian and Gnostic Christianity) in Mesopotamia, Syria, Arabia, Egypt and extending into North Africa and even Spain.

Since the more I research into early Islam, I have come to the conclusion that Islam developed from Ebonite Christianity, along with incorporating elements from Arabian Paganism, Zoroastrianism and other religious apart from Trinitarian Christianity.

Arianism and Ebonite Christianity had a similar sort of Christology, in that Jesus was a created being rather than uncreated.
 
Nestorians were more dominant in the region of Mesopotamia which the Persians ruled. Monophysites were more dominant in the provinces of the Roman Empire.

Good question, I have been doing some thinking on it and come to an interesting conclusion. So I believe the Arabs would become Ebonite or Arian Christians and that form of Christianity become dominant in the Middle East. I do believe in OTL that Ebonite Christianity had a significant following even in the 6th and 7th centuries (along with Arian and Gnostic Christianity) in Mesopotamia, Syria, Arabia, Egypt and extending into North Africa and even Spain.

Since the more I research into early Islam, I have come to the conclusion that Islam developed from Ebonite Christianity, along with incorporating elements from Arabian Paganism, Zoroastrianism and other religious apart from Trinitarian Christianity.

Arianism and Ebonite Christianity had a similar sort of Christology, in that Jesus was a created being rather than uncreated.

do you think a pro-roman/roman client arabian kingdom would eventually become chalcedonian?
 
While local Arab conquests and/or some sort of Volkwanderung is certainly possible 7th/8th century AD, without the impetus of Islam (or some other driving ideology) and the concommittent drive for a unified polity you won't see the level of Arab expansion as well as the spread of Arabic that you did OTL. Outside of the relatively nearby areas to Arabia, you'd see the local cultures/religions taking on some Arab elements, some Arabic loan words etc or even alphabet, but more of the absorption of the Arabs in to the pre-existing cultures like the Germanic tribes in the Roman Empire. With the Germanic tribes, their movement west was at least in significant part due to pressure from other ethnic groups to the east, for the Arabs I don't see pressure from anyone to move out of the Arabian peninsula or some sort of population crisis.
 
Amazed no one has mentioned Zenobia. That's one of the easiest way to get widespread Arab conquests without Islam.
Syria wasn't Arabic until the Arab conquests, prior to that it was split between Greeks on the coast and Arameans in the interior.
 
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Looked Arabic, spoke Arabic and acted Arabic, at least enough for the Roman, Persian and Syriac sources to see them as distinct from the rest of the population.
Yes, but Zenobia didn't speak or act Arabic, and the Arabs were an incredibly small minority until the conquests
 
without the arab conquests, is it certain that lebanese,syrians,iraqis,egyptians etc. would still be speaking aramaic & coptic today?
 
without the arab conquests, is it certain that lebanese,syrians,iraqis,egyptians etc. would still be speaking aramaic & coptic today?
Some variation of that is likely. When the Arabic conquests happened OTL Aramaic was on the rise, and Coptic is still used by the Christians in Egypt today.
 
Some variation of that is likely. When the Arabic conquests happened OTL Aramaic was on the rise, and Coptic is still used by the Christians in Egypt today.

do you what languages were dominant in what is now algeria,morocco,libya,tunisia before arabic
 
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