Egypt!!!!!!!!
Banned
If the Aq Qoyunlu and the karamanids Somehow beat the ottoman empire and conquered it, how long would it last?
If the Aq Qoyunlu and the karamanids Somehow beat the ottoman empire and conquered it, how long would it last?
by quality, do you mean only the edge in gunpowder weapons or did the ottomans have other quality advantages?Neither Karaman nor Aq Qoyunlu have the potential to defeat the Ottomans. An inferior army in quality and quantity.
by quality, do you mean only the edge in gunpowder weapons or did the ottomans have other quality advantages?
What made infantry so effective, and why didn't other turkmen states have it?Gundpowder weapons and use of infantry, which lacked by most of the Turkmen States of its time.
As soon as Timur is gone and the Ottomans are stable again, it will most likely be teared apart by joint Mamluk-Ottoman-Qara Qoyunlu invasion. And most Turkmens won't suddenly swear allegiance to the new Karamanli or Aq Qoyunlu rulership so it will be more of a confederacy of Anatolian Turkmens, which is so fragile that it is an easy "picking them one by one" contest.
What made infantry so effective, and why didn't other Turkmen states have it?
At this early stage (when Istanbul is still Constantinople), do the pro-Turkish segments of the Anatolian population really have any particular loyalty to the Ottoman family? If a fragment of Murad Hudavendigar's empire holds out in Europe/Bithynia then I can see people sticking by them but if they are completely broken by Timur then the ghazis may just switch to whichever other dynasty has the best chance of scoring more victories against the Romans, followed swiftly by opportunists like the Greek converts to Islam. If that dynasty happens to be Uzun Hasan's descendants then so be it.
The winner of a no-Ottomans scenario in the short term is likely Persia, as without an analogue to the Ottomans the future Safavids won't have any rivals for hegemony over Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Eastern Anatolia. However, this might work against them in the long-term-- without the shock of Chaldiran, efforts at continued military modernization won't be as urgent and Ismail I's religious outlook will remain the dominant influence on foreign policy. The Ottomans unleashed a military revolution, and without them we may see less improvement in Middle Eastern and East European models of warfare.