Ofaloaf - Are those two big-ass states in Germany (the big Protestant one and the big Catholic one), or just two regions that you can't be bothered to divide up? 
Yeah, I couldn't find all the borders for the states, so I just made 'em big arm-waving expanses.Ofaloaf - Are those two big-ass states in Germany (the big Protestant one and the big Catholic one), or just two regions that you can't be bothered to divide up?![]()
Yeah, I couldn't find all the borders for the states, so I just made 'em big arm-waving expanses.![]()
Here's a map of Europe in 1547... the closest I could think of to the early 17th centuary without going post-Westphalia...
You know, this may sound improper, but I think I just made love to that map.![]()
I'm not quite certain how to take that.You know, this may sound improper, but I think I just made love to that map.![]()
Oh, relations between the two are much better right now ITTL, but there's certainly still Swedes and Poles suspicious of each other. Mind you, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth still elect their kings- if the Vasas end up with a few too many mistakes, then they're outta there.How close is the relationship between Poland and Sweden becoming in this TL?
They've almost turned the Baltic into a Sedish-Polish lake. All that's left are a tiny bit of Russia and basically Denmark.
The Catholic monarchs had a few things going for them at that point:Were the rebellions in Britain successful in expelling Catholic/Spanish rule? With Spain distracted on the continent and no legitimate King on the throne I can't really see why they wouldn't.
The Catholic monarchs had a few things going for them at that point:
1. Elizabeth Tudor is dead, childless.
2. The Stuarts still have a legitimate claim to the throne. Although John II isn't really Stuart except by marriage, Arbella still has a legitimate claim to the throne through Mary's will and her family's relation to Henry VII.
3. By the time of Mary's death, certainly some nobles had converted to Catholicsm and created stronger bases of support for the Catholic Stuarts. Mary had, during her reign, treated Protestantism across England and Scotland much like she had previously as ruler of Scotland- trying to be as friendly and unmenacing as possible to the powerful Protestant nobles at home while at the same time tossing enough bones to neighboring Catholic powers (Spain) to keep them satisfied. John would've been more strongly Pro-Catholic, but his reign was relatively short.
4. The Stuarts still had plenty of loyal troops to call upon.
That's true enough, but what I kind of was trying to get at with Elizabeth dead is that there's no strong central rallying point for the rebelling magnates- they'll all be pushing for their own candidates, yes, but there won't be one central figure to unify them and make them a large enough threat to dethrone the Stuarts totally.This dosen't really help the Catholic monarchs at all. It just means that all the great magnates think they can place their own candidate on the throne.
Who's got a superior claim? Lord knows enough nobles were advancing claims during Elizabeth's reign- it's kind of like say that the 2008 campaign will put McCain under scrutiny and discover all this dirt on him, when that already happened back in 2000. Everybody already knows what's out there. Been there, advanced the claims already, lost.The will's of Queens count for little in the face of men's ambition. More importantly, as I say above, many of the other magnates will advance other, possibly superior claims.
Catholicism will be associated more with betraying England by Protestants, and likely the more radical ones at that. The Catholics- and their numbers ought to start growing again under Stuart rule, though they'll likely still be a minority- certainly won't see things the same way, and just see it as the return of 'proper' rule over England and Scotland. I agree with you though that Wars of Religion ought to be flaring up-- I guess I should include more of that in the timeline proper.The point is that religion is only the icing on the cake. The real issue is resentment of foreign dominance and personal ambition. England was very lucky OTL to avoid the Wars of Religion to the degree it did, and in this circumstance I'm sure they'd flare up again. Catholicism will be associated with, well, basically betrayal of your country even more than OTL. Sure, people will pretend to convert back for political reasons, but it'll be renounced quickly enough.
Again, mainly by rebellious Protestants. And while Spanish arms totally helped the Stuarts gain the English throne, the Scots did their fair share of fighting too, and the Spanish prensence was relatively subdued between the capture of London and the assumption of rule by Queen Mary. Rebelling nobles will emphasize the point, but Spanish influence on the crown isn't going to be so obvious to most commoners.That many? There would have been tremendous anti-Spanish/anti-Catholic sentiment. Remember that the Stuarts will be seen very much as foreign puppets, which will have sapped much of their legitimacy.
That's true enough, but what I kind of was trying to get at with Elizabeth dead is that there's no strong central rallying point for the rebelling magnates- they'll all be pushing for their own candidates, yes, but there won't be one central figure to unify them and make them a large enough threat to dethrone the Stuarts totally.
I doubt this. Even English Catholics would still resent foreign dominance, and they would be becoming less rather than more common, as their neighbors burn them out for collaboration.Catholicism will be associated more with betraying England by Protestants, and likely the more radical ones at that. The Catholics- and their numbers ought to start growing again under Stuart rule, though they'll likely still be a minority- certainly won't see things the same way, and just see it as the return of 'proper' rule over England and Scotland. I agree with you though that Wars of Religion ought to be flaring up-- I guess I should include more of that in the timeline proper.
No better for them to be seen as Scottish than Spanish. Indeed, without massive, continuing Spanish intervention, similar to in Holland, I don't see how the Stuart monarchy would have survived to this point.Again, mainly by rebellious Protestants. And while Spanish arms totally helped the Stuarts gain the English throne, the Scots did their fair share of fighting too, and the Spanish prensence was relatively subdued between the capture of London and the assumption of rule by Queen Mary.
We're too early for this to really matter in England. The commoners will still feel to much loyalty to the magnates and gentry, rather than the crown, for them to be major actors in events.Rebelling nobles will emphasize the point, but Spanish influence on the crown isn't going to be so obvious to most commoners.