Appearence of the IDF if France and Britain remain it's main suppliers

CalBear

Moderator
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No one at the MOD really had a clue what the Americans kept at the RAF bases they had; we pretty much gave up all rights to them.

They could've left nuclear bombs rusting by the perimeter fence, exposed to the elements, and we couldn't have done much about it except by booting them out altogether. Like the French did back in 1966.

We, on the other hand, sensibly secured our nuclear bombs with bike locks.

ACK!

A bike lock gap!!!!!!!
 

Dure

Banned
Cal Bear,

They may not have been called Reforger, but the U.S. had one of its largest supply bases in Europe at RAF Lakenheath, and much of the C-141 traffic into Israel started their journey from there and RAF Minenhall.

Interesting, I did not know that Lakenheath and Mindenhall were so involved in the resupply effort but they were not REFORGER sites.

Fellatio,

No one at the MOD really had a clue what the Americans kept at the RAF bases they had;

The word in bold should be changed to 'has'. The more it changes the more it stays the same. However, technically the bases are not sovreign US territory, just leased RAF bases.
 
Fellatio,



The word in bold should be changed to 'has'. The more it changes the more it stays the same. However, technically the bases are not sovreign US territory, just leased RAF bases.

Absolutely, and that's the way I like it. Knowing stuff just causes worry.


Just off to buy a D-Lock to secure the submarine to a lampost, otherwise someone may steal it ...gotta run!
 
For the IDAF (Heyl Ha'Avir) it could be something like this ;

1967 - deliverance of the firts 50 Mirage 5J attackbombers.
1968 - Israel places an order for 140 Mirage IIIEJ fighter/interceptor to supplement the 65 IIICJ already delivered between 1963-1966
1969 - Follow up order of 125 Mirage 5J and 25 Mirage 5RJ

1970-1979
1970 - the IDAF turns down the Harrier GR1
1974 - the first of 40 Buccaneer S2B enters service
1976 - the Mirage F1C gets selected to replace the aging IIICJ -70 aircraft ordered
1979 - Follow up order of 120 Mirage F1C/R to replace the IIIEJ

1980-1989
1980 - extensive upgrades to all Mirage 5J
1981 - order for an extra 40 Mirage F1EJ
1982 - 60 of the expensive Mirage 4000 gets selected.
1987 - 90 Tornado IDS aircraft ordered
1988 - All F1C get upgraded to F1E standard
1988 - follow up order of 25 Mirage 4000
1989 - the all new harrier GR5 wins a big Israeli order - 126 aircraft
1989 - upgrade of the 30 surviving buccaneers

1990 -1999
1991 - 30 new Tornado IDS/ECR ordered
1994 - the Mirage 4000 gets extensive upgrades
1995 - Mirage 2000RDI ordered as a stop gap until introduction of the Rafale
1996 - France recieves a definitive order of 124 Mirage 2000-5RDI and 48 Mirage 2000D
1996 - fase out of all 22 surviving buccaneers
1996 - upgrade to GR7 of all 125 Harriers
1997 - Israel selects 200+ rafales to replace M4000 and all F-1E/R fleet
 
Make that 80 Buccaneer S2B's ordered in 1974 in stead of 40 to carry the IDAF's big stick and an order for 90 jaguar Gr3 for close air support.

mark
 
In a world where the British and French agree to ensure Israel has enough weapons to survive the Jaguar as we know it wouldn't exist, it would be more like a Hawk or Alpha Jet. The roles that the Jaguar morphed into would be undertaken by the TSR2 analogue and Harrier. Also Britain would have a heavy fighter on offer.

As for operation Lemongrass, Shorts Belfasts and Transalls would be sufficient staging from Corsica, Malta and Cyprus.
 

perfectgeneral

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Proud to say that my grandad, Alan Carling, worked on the TSR2.

While ordering 125 harriers after the Falklands demonstration makes sense, I doubt that all 125 would still be around in 1996.

On a side issue can people stop quoting Dure? What is the point in having him on my ignore list if I still have to read his posts?
 
There will be indeed some attrition to the Harrier fleet. Let's say 120 are left.

Looking at the list we have a good view of what the IDAF fleet looks like when taking on the Syrian AF above lebanon in 1982. Main fighters tackling Fishbeds and Floggers are the Mirage IIIC/E and the Mirage F1C.

I have no doubts the skilled Israeli pilots will get good results with these fighters. Tough maybe not the 80 to nothing ratio they got in the OTL.

mark
 
Israel is basically a welfare state living off the tit of America. Why would we give them 10 billion a year to buy other people armaments?




Without America, there is no Israel only Palestine.
 
Israel is basically a welfare state living off the tit of America. Why would we give them 10 billion a year to buy other people armaments?

Without America, there is no Israel only Palestine.

Firstly, most of that money is foreign aid, which they'd get anyways. The US also gives them money specifically so that they can buy and maintain US armaments, which is really just supporting the defense industry through a proxy.

Second, America would still be supporting them, just that Europe would be its primary arms suppliers. America would still be working with them in other ways.

Third and most importantly, Israel is not a welfare state. The country has a substantial trade deficit and does get support form the US, but it does not need them to survive - and in this case, they could finance the difference with London or Paris fairly easily. It would be able to finance itself via Brussels later on, too.

In short - Israel could survive without America.
 
Israel is basically a welfare state living off the tit of America. Why would we give them 10 billion a year to buy other people armaments?




Without America, there is no Israel only Palestine.

Quite so, not that I'd put it in such a way.

No way would the US fund so completely the defence of a state which purchased 99% of its stuff from abroad; especially France, a key competitor for arms sales.

In the 1960s the French were selling stuff, and with the Mirage III very good and affordable stuff, which the US was not.
 
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