Apollo Program Continues

Wat if ?
No Prasident Nixon in 1968-1977 but Robert Kennedy.
No Vietnam or one how end in 1969-1970.
and USSR N-1 Booster workt right for sovjet Lunar mission in 1970s.

OTL NASA had next to Apollo Moon Mission also Apollo applications program
(in AAP the Orginal Apollo Program is part of it)

Note this Mission Plan is one of many planned durning 1966 to 1970 !
Phase 1 - 1969-1971 four missions Apollo to Moon (Apollo 11-14)
Phase 2 - 1972-1973 four Extended missions mit Rover (Apollo 15-17)
Phase 3 - 1974 A single Lunar Orbital Survey Mission CSM & LM (Apollo 18)
in Same year Skylab mission in low orbit (Wet workshop build in orbit out spend S-IVB Stage) and ASTP
Phase 4: 1975-1976 two dual-launch missions (Apollo 19-20)
(first bring unmanned Rover and LM Shelter to Lunar surface, second bring astronaut 2 men for 14 day stay on surface)
with Wet workshop Lunalab ?

after 1976 ?
1977 Big Space Station
Rockwell had made study for 6 men Apollo CSM for supply the Station. launch by Saturn IB or Titan IIID.

1978 Manned Venus Fly by with Wet workshop Apollo (Saturn V S-IVB stage)

if in 1969 the President has taken option for NASA Mars Program
this fly as Nuclear powert, prime hardware test for Mars flights in 1982-1986
usefull links:

Lunar AAP Options
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lunm1968.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/alsrbase.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/apoolass.htm

Boeing Lunar Base proposal LESA to NASA
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lesrbase.htm

Mars Option
Boeing "Integrated Manned Interplanetary Spacecraft." proposal to NASA
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/imis1968.htm
NASA von braun Version
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/vonn1969.htm
NASA Mars Expedition 1971 proposal
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/nasn1971.htm

Planned US space Station
http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/usstions.htm
 
That's a big whatif! Better to give Chelomei its chance with the UR-700...

he he the UR-700 is much better that N-1

by way the N-1 was design Korolev until his death
then take over by Mishin and heavy screw up
the N-1 went from 24 to 30 engine (not good test)
super cooled LOX (metall problems)
the N-1 had Pogo oscillation problems (due 30 Lox turbopumps)

the UR-700 was much better concept
build from Proton rocket modul (easy test and transport)

ur70068.jpg


lk70068.jpg

the LK-700 Lunarlander.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/lk700.htm
later mission under Chelomei TsKBM

Big Sojvet Space Station in low orbit

DLB lunar base
dlb3.jpg

http://www.astronautix.com/craft/dlbrbase.htm

Lunar polar orbit version of Almaz OPS

later Manned Venus Flyby and Mars Mission
use of UR-700M to launch MK-700 Mars Space craft
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/mk700.htm

but that this work you need Khrushchev until his death 1970 in power.
and Alexey Kosygin take over as leader of the USSR

and Leonid Brezhnev ?
les know is that in 1969 january 22
Viktor llyin try to assassinate Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev !
his death is way free for Kosygin to become leader.
 

Archibald

Banned
but that this work you need Khrushchev until his death 1970 in power.
and Alexey Kosygin take over as leader of the USSR

THANK YOU!!!!
You've just solved a BIG problem I had in my alternate timeline, I mean I needed someone to back Chelomei against its opponents.
My thought was to keep Krushchev alive until 1978 at least, as I had no one to replace him. :p
Long life to komrade Kosygin, Za Rodina! :D

Btw I agree that the N-1 was a hopeless case. Feck, 30 engines is WAY TOO MUCH.
And I'll add that it would send only 75 tons in LEO for a size and mass bigger than Saturne V.

The UR-700 is the compromise needed between N-1 (good timeline, 1969, but it doesn't work!) and Energia (its works pefectly, but it's too late, USSR collapse in 1989...)
 

hammo1j

Donor
If NASA was prepared to Open Source the designs for the Saturn V how much would building a new one cost? Its purely materials since the expensive design work has all been done. Bang in some new electronics and computer controls and you could have moon missions on a shoe string. Also there are plenty of unused examples around that you could directly copy.

Anyone know how much it would cost to ship the designs out to China and get a couple of these built again. Can't cost more than $100million in which case National Geographic could do it on a pay per view basis?
 
The UR-700 is the compromise needed between N-1 (good timeline, 1969, but it doesn't work!) and Energia (its works pefectly, but it's too late, USSR collapse in 1989...)

that idea is from my TL "LOST MOON"

14 december 1966 real fact
secound unmanned Testflight of Suyuz 7K-OK nr°1
the R-7 Rocket malfuntion, enginer checkt fueled Rocket (include Mishin)
as the electronic of R-7 is swich of, the Soyuz rescuce system rocket is activtate
this ripp DM from top of R-7 rocket into savety, wille worker enginer are on launch pad :eek:
from top burnig Iso-octan coolant fluid run down a FULL FUELED R-7 Rocket

worker and enginer run for they life

2 minute later the R-7 explode
the explosion kill a Major Korostylev

WI wen Mishin kill also ?
Sergei Okhapkin (Deputy Chief Designer at TsKBEM) take over post of Mishin
he was the alternate consider to Korolev's replacement instat Mishin
see 11 May 1966 on http://www.astronautix.com/astros/korolev.htm

new Plan N-1 with better quality test for Engine, back to 24 engine like korolev orginal plan, no super cold LOX.

EOR Dual Launch !
first launch brings Lunar Exploration Block in orbit
the second the Full fuel upperstage
rendevous and launch to moon.

they had the idea in 1968 but Mishin was to drunk in that time to decision
see: Korolev footstep were to big for that Alcoholic
An important decision has to be taken by Mishin, he start to dring heavy...
 
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Archibald

Banned
they had the idea in 1968 but Mishin was to drunk in that time to decision
see: Korolev footstep were to big for that Alcoholic
An important decision has to be taken by Mishin, he start to dring heavy...

hmm soviet management didn't help Mishine at all.
According to Astronautix its tasks were HUGE. So huge in fact that a the following comparison was made. Imagine that on the US side Gemini, Apollo and Skylab programs were managed by ONE firm and ONE boss, the boss having just half the budget and 1/10 the time!
way too much projects for OKB-1.
 
Suppose some lunatic billionaire hears there's an asteroid with a core of platinum the size of Manhattan & decides to go after it. He buys the design & tooling of the S.V from Douglas, & builds them himself... Impossible?
anybody thinking about a howard hughes wank TL? Cuz if there was a really rich guy crazy enough to do it, it would be him, hell he may just decide to build himself a mansion on the moon, no germs there
 
There would be a Moon base by 1980 if the Apollo program was not canceled and maybe a Mars base by 2000.

And who would pay for them? :)
As already said, unless USSR was more successful in its moon program and made moves to send manned flights to Venus and Mars, no one in US would waste more billions. All this was really above technological level of the time, even Apollo programm was more like a miracle.
And USSR would not bear the cost anyway even if its rockets were better. There is a story how Korolev once set to his men a task to draft a manned mission to Mars with all tech and cost calculation. Just to keep them in shape I suppose :). Well, it turned possible even then, but cost would bancrupt USSR for sure it was more then its GNP.
 
Well, it turned possible even then, but cost would bancrupt USSR for sure it was more then its GNP.

not necessarily
it was Leonid Brezhnev Conservative policy which led the Soviet economy to bancrupt.

had Viktor llyin assassinate Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev in 1969 january 22
Alexey Kosygin had take over as leader of the USSR
he hab made economy needed change in Sowjetunion
 
here a possible Timeline


1960's
Apollo Program
1968 Apollo 7, Apollo 8 Lunar Orbit Apollo 9 & 10 LM testing
1969 landing of Apollo 11 and 12 (G-Mission short stay, one EVA)

1970's
1970 Apollo 13 and 14 (H-Mission short stay, 2 EVA )
1971 Apollo 15 and 16 (J-Mission with Rover and geologist as LM co-pilot like in OTL Apollo 17)
launch of Salyut 1 and Soyuz 11 disaster
1972 Apollo 17 and 18 (J-Mission up to 3 days on lunar surface)

N1-7L launch is a success (even with problem of first stage engine cutoff during stage seperation)
Space Race becomes hot again

1973 Apollo 19 a AAP mission, dual Saturn V launch
N1-8L launch unmannned test of L3 LOK/LK complex from low orbit to moon

1974 Apollo 20 a AAP mission, dual Saturn V launch
one brings unmanned LM shelter to surface, the 2 men Apollo CSM makes Lunar Orbital Survey Mission.
tow brings LM taxi and 2 men to moon for 14 day (they life in LM shelter)
while one men Apollo CSM makes Lunar Orbital Survey Mission.

N-1F launch is success it replace the old N-1 version (L-1 to 8)
first Sovjet lunar landing with LK
launch Salyut 4

1975 Skylab A launch with second production run of Saturn V,
Skylab 1-4 use up of last Saturn IB and Apollo CSM block III
ASTP 1 flight
second Sovjet lunar landing with LK

1976 Apollo 21 AAP Mission, dual Saturn V launch
third Sovjet lunar landing with LK
Launch Salyut 5 military space station

1977 Skylab B replace Skylab A
supply by new 6 men Apollo CSM Block IV launch by Titan IIIM (MOL program)
Grumman presents the Orbital Tug on base of LM hardware.
Lunar L3M Mission to moon 16 day on surface, the Sovjet version of AAP Mission
launch Salyut 6 advance space station, resupply by Progress spacecraft
ASTP 2 Flight Apollo CSM dock on Salyut 6

1978 Apollo 22 AAP Mission, dual Saturn V launchl
Lunar L3M Mission

1979 Skylab C (6-12 men) launch , replace the Skylab B

notes
in year of Skylab launch is no Apollo flight to Moon
This because Logistics and administration reasion
need of backup Saturn V in case launch failure
here is a need for tow or more Missioncontrol center, because simultaneously Skylab and Apollo AAP Mission.
6 men in low orbit, 2-1 in Lunar orbit and 2 on lunar surface.

no Shuttle and Saturn IB
they replace by Titan IIIM (USAF rocket for MOL program)

Apollo CSM Block III and IV
Block III is for AAP with 45 day lifetime ( more Tanks for Fuelcell)

Block IV is based on Rockwell study for Logistic Apollo from 1967
Servis Module is replace by Cargo Module
with tanks and descent Engine from LM ! (in size of Agena stage, only better)
this is surround by 4 Cargo Canister 3254 kg of usable cargo.
CM adaped for 6 Astronauts (4999 kg)
in study Launch by Saturn IB or Titan-IIIC

http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/ca...1974073531.pdf
size 6 Mb
 

Archibald

Banned
Boeing "Integrated Manned Interplanetary Spacecraft." proposal to NASA
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/imis1968.htm

I had a glance at the IMIS pdf-s on the NASA server. Bizarrelly, the Von Braun expedition of 1969 doesn't seem to be there...

Both Boeing IMIS and Von Braun 1969 mars expedition planned similar dates.

Earth-departure : November 12 1981.

Mars orbit : August 5 1982

the MEM stay for 30 days on Mars surface.

Depart Mars orbit : October 28 1982

Venus swingby (yes! this cut speed for Earth reentry) February 1983

Earth return : August 14 1983.

and now, some OTL "events" compared to this

November 12 1981: Columbia second flight (sigh...)

August 5 1982 : UNISPACE 2 conference (United Nation held a big space gammut in Vienna in 1968, 1982 and 1999)

February 1983: Reagan starts SDI.

March
- Spacelab first flight (Challenger. Re-sigh...)
- soviets Venera probes land on Venus

September 1
KAL-007 shot down, world on the verge of a nuclear war...

In August 1982 I'm three months old, so I can't remember Men walking on Mars :D ...

Michel, please give me light :p

The MEM stay for 30 days on the Martian surface, but 9 August - 28 October is 80 days... Once in Mars orbit, how many time do they need to outfit the MEM, and land ? 10 days ?

Man walked on Mars on August 15 1982. How about that ?
 
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