Apollo 8 defects to the Soviet Union out of frustration, revenge and disillusionment

Cook

Banned
And of course there's the case of Victor Belenko landing his Mig-25 in Japan in 1976. Might give ideas to a Soyuz crew...
There is a massive difference between being some disgruntled Mig driver based in far eastern Siberia and being a Cosmonaut; outside of the Politburo those guys had the best lives in the Soviet Union. And they were flying in space! Something that there is no way they’d ever get the chance to do again if they defected.
 
Conditions aboard Apollo 8 were deplorable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_8

Minor, but annoying and frequent technical difficulties made the early part of the spaceflight stressful, later came the sleeplessness out of watching for other malfunctions which might arise. Then, one of the astronauts came down with an illness, with uncomfortable, gross and distracting results.
Meanwhile NASA reacted to these developments with total apathy, and expected the crew to still make the scheduled video broadcasts, while acting as if nothing was amiss.
When they finally reached the Moon, it was difficult to observe, because of other inconveniences. Then came the journey back...


What if the crew got so annoyed and frustrated, that they decide to alter their deorbit burn to splash down in the Pacific Ocean near Vladivostok, and defect to the Soviet Union?

Sorry, this is seriously ASB.
 
Sorry, this is seriously ASB.

The standards for ASB are growing more and more lax by the minute I see. It's like the term does not mean "requires intervention by crazy omnipotent alien power" anymore.

There's no need for alien intervention, it's enough to say that it's very unlikely and if something like that happened it would be because they mission-landed somewhere on Soviet territory rather than defected on purpose.
 
There's no need for alien intervention, it's enough to say that it's very unlikely and if something like that happened it would be because they mission-landed somewhere on Soviet territory rather than defected on purpose.

If they did land in Soviet territory (due to some accident), there would be a serious diplomatic incident if the Soviets didn't send them (and the Apollo 8) space craft back to the United States, which I think is mandated in the Outer Space Treaty, right?
 
If they did land in Soviet territory (due to some accident), there would be a serious diplomatic incident if the Soviets didn't send them (and the Apollo 8) space craft back to the United States, which I think is mandated in the Outer Space Treaty, right?

Oh yes. But there could be talk of defection or whatever. And the Soviets could delay (returning the Apollo unit is probably hard without specialized equipment, and they won't let the Americans in). It could partially fulfill OP's conditions and create an interesting scenario.

In any case, Alien Space Bats is when a non-existent comet materialises out of thin...space....and then hurtles down and smites Berlin in WW1, and people ask "now what".

This idea does not require nearly that much.
 
The standards for ASB are growing more and more lax by the minute I see. It's like the term does not mean "requires intervention by crazy omnipotent alien power" anymore.

There's no need for alien intervention, it's enough to say that it's very unlikely and if something like that happened it would be because they mission-landed somewhere on Soviet territory rather than defected on purpose.
Unless he's implying the Apollo missions were ASB in the first place! Which means ASBs are real! :eek:
 

Flubber

Banned
If they did land in Soviet territory (due to some accident), there would be a serious diplomatic incident if the Soviets didn't send them (and the Apollo 8) space craft back to the United States, which I think is mandated in the Outer Space Treaty, right?


There wouldn't be an incident because, as you note, both powers were ready and obligated by treaty to recover the others spacecraft in the case of a landing within their territories. As noted earlier, the continental US was a planned USSR back-up landing site.
 
In any case, Alien Space Bats is when a non-existent comet materialises out of thin...space....and then hurtles down and smites Berlin in WW1, and people ask "now what".

This idea does not require nearly that much.

Well, yeah. When originally coined it was as a response to the whole "Sea Lion" thing. The POD of the OP is arguably almost as implausible. But perhaps we need a handy term for the less Deus ex machina PODS. How about RIP (Ridiculously ImPlausible) ? We can RIP on dodgy PODs.....:D
 

Flubber

Banned
The standards for ASB are growing more and more lax by the minute I see.

No, it's not.

There's no need for alien intervention...

Yes, there is.

.... it's enough to say that it's very unlikely and if something like that happened it would be because they mission-landed somewhere on Soviet territory rather than defected on purpose.

That's not what the OP proposed. An emergency landing within the USSR is not ASB. The Apollo 8 crew purposely defecting is ASB. What the OP proposed and what you've proposed are two different things.
 
Oh yes. But there could be talk of defection or whatever. And the Soviets could delay (returning the Apollo unit is probably hard without specialized equipment, and they won't let the Americans in). It could partially fulfill OP's conditions and create an interesting scenario.
I wonder if the Soviets might think twice about even accepting a defection attempt of this kind. It looks too neat for them, and they risk cosmonauts who have to emergency-land in the US wanting to 'defect.' Depends on whether or not the Apollo 8 crew told anyone ahead of time that they had a hankering to live in Redland.
 
I wonder if the Soviets might think twice about even accepting a defection attempt of this kind. It looks too neat for them, and they risk cosmonauts who have to emergency-land in the US wanting to 'defect.' Depends on whether or not the Apollo 8 crew told anyone ahead of time that they had a hankering to live in Redland.

A bad joke on air, emergency landing, lots of suspicion, Soviets feeling very uncomfortable with the whole thing...

...sounds like a mini-TL idea.

It still ends with the return of the astronauts home but it will definitely have a different perception to it and spawn conspiracy theories.

Imagine *History Channel covering this 30 years later. :D
 
A bad joke on air, emergency landing, lots of suspicion, Soviets feeling very uncomfortable with the whole thing...

...sounds like a mini-TL idea.

It still ends with the return of the astronauts home but it will definitely have a different perception to it and spawn conspiracy theories.

Imagine *History Channel covering this 30 years later. :D

"If you don't [static] us to land, Houston, we're going to have to pick one for ourselves. The Soviet Union's [static] right about now."

"Did not copy your last, please repeat, Apollo 8."

"I said the Soviet Union is looking pretty attractive right now, Houston. Nice and big, plenty of room for [static]."


And J. Edgar Hoover was still director of the FBI...
 
This is certainly ASB, but the other way around - Soyuz defecting to America ! - was a remote possibility. Have a look at this http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2012/04/landing-soyuz-lifeboats-in-australia-1992/



And of course there's the case of Victor Belenko landing his Mig-25 in Japan in 1976. Might give ideas to a Soyuz crew...

The main impediment to any group of people defecting, especially from an authoritarian regime like the Soviet Union, is that someone has to propose it first. And even if one of them got the idea, they'd be scared shitless to mention it, even as a joke.
 
If the concept is boiled down to, "What If: NASA Astronaut(s) Defected to the USSR", and you removed the Apollo 8 thing, I think that has more legs. And it is an interesting concept since you have things like how the US would react, how the Soviets would react, what type of man it would take to do that, whether there were any such men in the OTL NASA pool of astronauts or potential astronauts, whether it would happen with a crew of 2 to 3 men or whether it would only be something 1 man in a capsule could pull off due to problems and impossibilities of group consensus on that. Things like that.

I vaguely remember reading a book about this premise. Astronaut's parents were Soviet sleeper agents, his early life was manipulated so he was bitter toward capitalism (falling in love then girl leaving him for some rich industrialist). I think he somehow takes control of shuttle, killing others on board.

Not sure about details but I think it ends along the lines of him landing in Soviet Union and then B-2 plane(s?) bomb the shit out of that airfield and destroy shuttle.
 
Conditions aboard Apollo 8 were deplorable.


Minor, but annoying and frequent technical difficulties made the early part of the spaceflight stressful, later came the sleeplessness out of watching for other malfunctions which might arise. Then, one of the astronauts came down with an illness, with uncomfortable, gross and distracting results.
Meanwhile NASA reacted to these developments with total apathy, and expected the crew to still make the scheduled video broadcasts, while acting as if nothing was amiss.
When they finally reached the Moon, it was difficult to observe, because of other inconveniences. Then came the journey back...


What if the crew got so annoyed and frustrated, that they decide to alter their deorbit burn to splash down in the Pacific Ocean near Vladivostok, and defect to the Soviet Union?

they are test pilots, danger, uncomfortable conditions etc is what attracts them!
 
Russia Today headline next week:

'Apollo 8 Astronauts tried to defect to Soviet Union.'

There is unlikely, very unlikely, and then there's Russia Today.
And their research seems to consist of surfing the net.
Sigged. :p
 
I vaguely remember reading a book about this premise. Astronaut's parents were Soviet sleeper agents, his early life was manipulated so he was bitter toward capitalism (falling in love then girl leaving him for some rich industrialist). I think he somehow takes control of shuttle, killing others on board.

Not sure about details but I think it ends along the lines of him landing in Soviet Union and then B-2 plane(s?) bomb the shit out of that airfield and destroy shuttle.

"Sir, the Soviets have an inneficient and bureaucratically overdesigned reusable rocket! They could use it to do exactly what they already do with their other rockets, only it looks cooler!"
 
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