Anyone else find most political or alternate history games bias?

You can just make a different version for Germany. Also I find those laws ironic and dumb. Censorship in most forms are wrong. Also in America at least we know who is a Nazi since they can be open about it unlike Germany. Better to know where the wolves are then have them pretending to be sheep.
I mean why the hell would paradox do it through? It's cheaper to make one version of the game after all. If you really want that history in your game use mods. They go more in depth the Paradox does anyways.
 
I would note that when it comes to Wolfenstein there were so e people who questioned if the KKK would work with the Nazis since while both were racist, both were very nationalistic and the Nazis couldn't claim to be liberators like they did in parts of the USSR, so it was deemed questionable if the Klan would see them as brothers in arms.

KKK just seemed there because a) it's the 60s b) good time to discuss racism in the US, which J had brought up in TNO and c) comic relief - from what I recall they were portrayed as bumbling buffoons and held in contempt even by the Nazis.
 
I would note that when it comes to Wolfenstein there were so e people who questioned if the KKK would work with the Nazis since while both were racist, both were very nationalistic and the Nazis couldn't claim to be liberators like they did in parts of the USSR, so it was deemed questionable if the Klan would see them as brothers in arms.

KKK just seemed there because a) it's the 60s b) good time to discuss racism in the US, which J had brought up in TNO and c) comic relief - from what I recall they were portrayed as bumbling buffoons and held in contempt even by the Nazis.
Agreed, people usually see the left being more divided then the right often times. This might be true within one individual country at a time but internationally this is the opposite. It is harder for two nationalist or right wing groups with the exception of religious ones to work with each other often times if from opposite countries. Too much pride and ego between the two. Nationalism makes it harder to work with people who you forcibly took over even if yall have similar beliefs. Left wing beliefs make it easier to work or pretend to be more universal with the populations you take over. The klan and Neo Nazis in our world don't even get along. It could be the same in wolfstein especially if the Nazis goes towards strict secularism or worse Neo paganism. Did they ever mention religion of the Nazis in the game? Furthermore, the klan would be pissed and fight if you forced Americans to learn and only speak German.
 
Agreed, people usually see the left being more divided then the right often times. This might be true within one individual country at a time but internationally this is the opposite. It is harder for two nationalist or right wing groups with the exception of religious ones to work with each other often times if from opposite countries. Too much pride and ego between the two. Nationalism makes it harder to work with people who you forcibly took over even if yall have similar beliefs. Left wing beliefs make it easier to work or pretend to be more universal with the populations you take over. The klan and Neo Nazis in our world don't even get along. It could be the same in wolfstein especially if the Nazis goes towards strict secularism or worse Neo paganism. Did they ever mention religion of the Nazis in the game? Furthermore, the klan would be pissed and fight if you forced Americans to learn and only speak German.
Ironically, there is the thought of the Klan being forced to fight alongside some black nationalists against the even more evil Nazis.
 
I mean why the hell would paradox do it through? It's cheaper to make one version of the game after all. If you really want that history in your game use mods. They go more in depth the Paradox does anyways.
This is so true. Paradox makes some of the most moddable games available. I'd be surprised if there's not a mod on the Steam store that wouldn't simulate some aspect of the final solution in Hearts of Iron.
Paradox makes their games to be playable by the widest possible audience (and admittedly, it's a pretty small slice of the game playing public) because deep, immersive strategic games aren't exactly GTA in popularity.
So, they're not going to go out of their way to build into the game something as diabolical as the holocaust, typically. Too much of a risk that it would turn off the paying public. But they've given users the ability to mod away to their hearts' content.

I recall an article a few years ago that ripped Paradox for modeling slavery in Victoria: Empire Under the Sun. I played that game until my eyes nearly popped out. I liked how they included slavery during the period. The longer you played the more rebellious your slaves became and servile insurrections could wreck you pretty quick.

I like the happy medium created by Paradox's modding tools. It lets them release a game that is broadly popular and then gives the players the tools to mod in events and scenarios.
 
This is so true. Paradox makes some of the most moddable games available. I'd be surprised if there's not a mod on the Steam store that wouldn't simulate some aspect of the final solution in Hearts of Iron.
Paradox makes their games to be playable by the widest possible audience (and admittedly, it's a pretty small slice of the game playing public) because deep, immersive strategic games aren't exactly GTA in popularity.
So, they're not going to go out of their way to build into the game something as diabolical as the holocaust, typically. Too much of a risk that it would turn off the paying public. But they've given users the ability to mod away to their hearts' content.

I recall an article a few years ago that ripped Paradox for modeling slavery in Victoria: Empire Under the Sun. I played that game until my eyes nearly popped out. I liked how they included slavery during the period. The longer you played the more rebellious your slaves became and servile insurrections could wreck you pretty quick.

I like the happy medium created by Paradox's modding tools. It lets them release a game that is broadly popular and then gives the players the tools to mod in events and scenarios.
I feel like if the could put games like crusader kings 2 or civilization on console without dumbing it down it would get a lot of people playing
 

Justinianus

Banned
I mean why the hell would paradox do it through? It's cheaper to make one version of the game after all. If you really want that history in your game use mods. They go more in depth the Paradox does anyways.

They DO have a separate German version though. They have two stickied threads about it:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/german-version-faq.934568/

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/recent-changes-in-german-law.1114395/

At the end of the day Paradox is a company out to make money. If depicting the Holocaust would cause them to lose money then they won't depict it. Of course the opposite is also true. Any moralistic or political reasons are little more than window dressing.
 
About the Holocaust and other war crimes on HOI4:

Let's say you’re “morally ok” to implement it, would there be ANY effect "gameplay" wise on implementing it? From what I know it’s wasn’t that much a logistical strain on german war effort. And clicking on a event “gas the jews” just for the flavor on it is not my personal definition of fun.



One game where it was “smartly” implemented is Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa, as the game model the relation between the player avatar (who is supposed to be Franz Halder) and the various other 3rd Reich leaders (including Hitler, Himmler, Goebbels etc…).

Said relation having a big impact on the gameplay (in a nutshell, having good relations with the Fuhrer is helpful if you need to convince him of, for example, releasing more truck to help your logistical train or not change the campaign main objective from Moscow to Leningrad in the middle of it).

In that context, lending a hand to the Einsatzgruppen (to gain better relation with the Fuhrer, but penalty with your military commanders) is a decision given to the player that is both interesting from an “ethical” and gameplay PoV . The game also include stuff like how harsh your security force will be with partisan with immediate decrease of activity if you choose to be harsh, but long-term increase etc…

The player can of course choose to not “activate” those event in game by choosing an alt “Clean War” option at the start of the game).
 
It seems to me a lot of the political and alternate history games are bias in their views especially paradox ones. They also seem to want to avoid many topics more so when talking about games that take place closer to the present.

I feel like the second Wolfenstein is, due to the fact that Grace keeps saying how all white Americans gave up and collaborated with the Nazis, helped put them in death camps, yaddayadda. Then the white communists who opposed the war are the only ones who think black people should be given equal rights.
To be fair though, I think the whole marketing campaign for Wolfenstein II cashing on the Charlottesville fiasco (as well as some media outlets making it out to be a "metaphor" for the Trump administration when it's clearly not) kind of turned some people off from trying the game out (not that they're part of the far right mind you), though I'll admit I might try it once the whole...thing blows over; after all there does need to be games that tackle how bad a Nazi victory scenario will be from time to time and why Nazism is bad.

And of course there's some AH-games that depict the USSR in a negative light (though not to the extent the new Wolfenstein games do with Nazis), like Freedom Fighters and Red Alert; that and it's a given that plenty of works will have a bias in one way or another (even with stuff I enjoyed despite being left leaning like Robocop and Boondocks).
 
To be fair though, I think the whole marketing campaign for Wolfenstein II cashing on the Charlottesville fiasco (as well as some media outlets making it out to be a "metaphor" for the Trump administration when it's clearly not) kind of turned some people off from trying the game out (not that they're part of the far right mind you), though I'll admit I might try it once the whole...thing blows over; after all there does need to be games that tackle how bad a Nazi victory scenario will be from time to time and why Nazism is bad.

And of course there's some AH-games that depict the USSR in a negative light (though not to the extent the new Wolfenstein games do with Nazis), like Freedom Fighters and Red Alert; that and it's a given that plenty of works will have a bias in one way or another (even with stuff I enjoyed despite being left leaning like Robocop and Boondocks).
I can enjoy any well done entertainments no matter what it’s views are. It bothers me when biases come off as condescending and lead to other views being blocked out or dehumanized. I guess this topic could also apply to various media other then just games like tv or movies. Variety is good for entertainment industry. This includes views and points of games, movies, and tv. Personally I like to see dark, good, and mostly grey morality in media entertainment
 
The talk about white non left resistance in Wolfstein is interesting IMO. I talk with a lot of USA Americans who are clearly Left and they are really cynical with their people...ignoring that even White Racists have limits.

I think that's a issue when despiting Fascism and the Nazis. The Right Wing victims are just kind of ignored, nobody really cares for the Polish Nationalist Resistance except the Poles themselves because they were anti semites while Leftist resistance is painted in a almost saintly light (Anti Racism and Feminist fighting against NAZIS in the 40? Instant hero).

There really no right wing equivalent for that. Anti communists are associated with USA Backed dictatorships, fascists and bigotry. Anti Fascists are progressive martyrs.
 
The talk about white non left resistance in Wolfstein is interesting IMO. I talk with a lot of USA Americans who are clearly Left and they are really cynical with their people...ignoring that even White Racists have limits.

I think that's a issue when despiting Fascism and the Nazis. The Right Wing victims are just kind of ignored, nobody really cares for the Polish Nationalist Resistance except the Poles themselves because they were anti semites while Leftist resistance is painted in a almost saintly light (Anti Racism and Feminist fighting against NAZIS in the 40? Instant hero).

There really no right wing equivalent for that. Anti communists are associated with USA Backed dictatorships, fascists and bigotry. Anti Fascists are progressive martyrs.
That is a valid point. Many of the right wing did work or merge into the Nazis but other elements of the right wing were targeted by the Nazis or opposed it. This was mostly catholic and the super religious sects but even some of the old aristocrats and junkers who didn’t like the populous message of Nazism and a few other things about it. This is just inside Germany. Outside of Germany they will have a much harder time working with many right wing groups. With the exception of the religious right and maybe even the more aristocratic forms of conservatives, most right wing groups that aren’t from the same country(unless your talking about pan nationalist) usually have a harder time working together because of nationalistic or ethnic pride/ego especially if they are being invaded by them. The left might fight more among themselves within the same country due to ideological issues and power struggles but the left internationally will usually work together more often due to being surrounded by enemies and it being universal in theory.
 
Right Wingers really are their worst enemies. Coming back to bias, yeah, is curious. It also don't help that while Fascists had democracies to fight, Communists as the Ultimate Evil is more of less ruined due to the fact that Communism wasn't a fully organizated forced unlike Fascism (or better said, how fascism is.seen, not all Fascists were in the Axis)
 
Right Wingers really are their worst enemies. Coming back to bias, yeah, is curious. It also don't help that while Fascists had democracies to fight, Communists as the Ultimate Evil is more of less ruined due to the fact that Communism wasn't a fully organizated forced unlike Fascism (or better said, how fascism is.seen, not all Fascists were in the Axis)

The Communists had far more solidarity for the most part, and at least a more common goal than the Axis ever did, Germany had to clean up after Italy, and Japan was sort of just there, if the Second Sino-Japanese did not break out, or Japan won it in a fashion that did not see the U.S significantly antagonized. Japan would not really care. More to the point with alternate history, like regular history, it tends to be about proving a point especially in the political realms, or it goes into rule of cool.
 
You can just make a different version for Germany. Also I find those laws ironic and dumb. Censorship in most forms are wrong. Also in America at least we know who is a Nazi since they can be open about it unlike Germany. Better to know where the wolves are then have them pretending to be sheep.

The problem is that people would be more likely be attract by Neo Nazism because they are attract by the massage from the strong and chrismatic "Wolf".

There are Neo Nazist groups in MONGOLIA that adapt nazi ideas to promote xenophobic and anti Chinese views. Do not under estimate the attractiveness of nazist views being openly promoted.
 
I feel like if the could put games like crusader kings 2 or civilization on console without dumbing it down it would get a lot of people playing

Crusader King is widely seen as a Fantasy RPG and a strategic game at the same time, thus any bad things carried out by players like incest or blood sacrifice would not share the same implications as in OTL modern events like the Holocaust.
 
You will be surprised how people just think of the Nazis as this badass and great military who was over ambitious before they think of anything else about them.
To be fair though, they did have a sort of badass military...that well went with the regime's ideology, even in combat. That and we Westerners have no clue how bad ultra-militarist Imperial Japan was compared to the Asians, which funny enough has a thing for Nazi imagery (of which I'm not in the mood to debate whether or not that's good on this site here).
 
Nazi Millitary was pretty damn incompetent overall, not that they ALL a bunch of morons, but the fact that they lost the war so harshly really don't speak anything good on them.

Imperial Japan was a imperialistic nightmare destroying all of Asia, but they usually did took advantage of the relative weakness of their neightboors, and even then China managed to sort of stop them.

Fun thing. I actually wanted to do a Alternate History (in a fantasy world, not a TL) where a Latinoamerican antagonist manages to cause the downfall of "The West" (AKA. Europe and North America)...while leaving Imperial Japan alive and allowing them to carry out their imperialistic dreams way easier. I know is a Imperial wank, but it makes for a interesting commentary on Imperialism
 
The problem is that people would be more likely be attract by Neo Nazism because they are attract by the massage from the strong and chrismatic "Wolf".

There are Neo Nazist groups in MONGOLIA that adapt nazi ideas to promote xenophobic and anti Chinese views. Do not under estimate the attractiveness of nazist views being openly promoted.
It is the responsibility of the people in society to counter and critique these views through words not censorship. Unless they try to use force or violence people should be allowed to express thoughts or opinions no matter how incorrect or ignorant. Censorship just reinforces the idea of the average person not being able to reason for himself. Censorship basically is a few people deciding what is appropriate and what is not. A society that requires censorship is a weak one.
 
The problem is that people would be more likely be attract by Neo Nazism because they are attract by the massage from the strong and chrismatic "Wolf".

There are Neo Nazist groups in MONGOLIA that adapt nazi ideas to promote xenophobic and anti Chinese views. Do not under estimate the attractiveness of nazist views being openly promoted.
The swastika has really gone full circle if Mongolian nationalists are copying the German appropriation of a historically Hindu and Buddhist symbol.
 
Top