Anyone else find most political or alternate history games bias?

I just like history and video games. I think history and video games should include as much depth and detail as possible. I can deal with some unrealistic things being in it but I don't think anything should be excluded from a game or history especially if it actually happened. You can have the unrealistic elements without excluding stuff that actually happened and took place. This is why I don't address the restoring the Kaiserriech in the game as much. Also consider this, many people who play these games are the most exposure they get to this history often times. If they aren't given the context or true detail they get a water down romanticized version focused on only the combat which arguably you can't separate from the other stuff either. You can do this in a tasteful way. I noticed in my classes about this era many people look at or focus on the battles and conventional war aspects of this era while not giving any attention to or ignoring the deeper and darker roots of this that should be addressed.

YES! THANK YOU! I agree. Paradox should grow a pair and address the darker events of World War II in their games. Censorship be damned. People's feelings be damned.
 
I feel like the second Wolfenstein is, due to the fact that Grace keeps saying how all white Americans gave up and collaborated with the Nazis, helped put them in death camps, yaddayadda. Then the white communists who opposed the war are the only ones who think black people should be given equal rights.
How do they define white here, anyway? Nordic, Aryan, German, or Germanic? Never played the game myself and am curious which way they went. Looks on google I also can't find any reference to Italy outside some fandom sites (I presume the sorts where people made their own stories) as well as a reference on Steam to Italy being betrayed and invaded. Given how 90% of Italians who moved to the United States were from Naples or Sicily... Yes, I am thinking the Irish would be counting their blessings if they manage to be the only Catholic groups not liquidated.

I do have a few problems with the focus trees but that is unrelated to this. But after winning in Hearts of Iron you make the borders of Europe which was heavily effected by ethnic cleansing in our world. Also the holoucast and ethnic cleansing played a big part on how the war went out east. If the Nazis were not treating all Slavs like sub humans or wasting resources killing unarmed civilians things would go a lot different. For example, Ukrainians and other people or groups in the USSR would be more inclined to help the Nazis if it wasn't for the racial stuff. They would also have more resources and men for the war. The game has Stalin purges and issues he had in Ukrainian which are still sensitive topics in that region.
I just like history and video games. I think history and video games should include as much depth and detail as possible. I can deal with some unrealistic things being in it but I don't think anything should be excluded from a game or history especially if it actually happened. You can have the unrealistic elements without excluding stuff that actually happened and took place. This is why I don't address the restoring the Kaiserriech in the game as much. Also consider this, many people who play these games are the most exposure they get to this history often times. If they aren't given the context or true detail they get a water down romanticized version focused on only the combat which arguably you can't separate from the other stuff either. You can do this in a tasteful way. I noticed in my classes about this era many people look at or focus on the battles and conventional war aspects of this era while not giving any attention to or ignoring the deeper and darker roots of this that should be addressed.
I do suppose some of these games could try putting things in about rations for different regoins and work classes, but it might be used as an excuse by some to claim that it is only right to 'feed your own' while delibertly starving others. It also would be a bit insulting if they only classified Jews for pogroms or the Holocaust. Partially as many of them wouldn't consider themselves Jewish and partially because of the millions of others from ever level of society, group, etc. if they tried to make it realistic they would be spending so much time classifying people it would almost be thought of as though the game were just a genocide simulator, with the war basically being a timelimit to clear out a continent.
 
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How do they define white here, anyway? Nordic, Aryan, German, or Germanic? Never played the game myself and am curious which way they went. Looks on google I also can't find any reference to Italy outside some fandom sites (I presume the sorts where people made their own stories) as well as a reference on Steam to Italy being betrayed and invaded. Given how 90% of Italians who moved to the United States were from Naples or Sicily... Yes, I am thinking the Irish would be counting their blessings if they manage to be the only Catholic groups not liquidated.



I do suppose some of these games could try putting things in about rations for different regoins and work classes, but it might be used as an excuse by some to claim that it is only right to 'feed your own' while delibertly starving others. It also would be a bit insulting if they only classified Jews for pogroms or the Holocaust. Partially as many of them wouldn't consider themselves Jewish and partially because of the millions of others from ever level of society, group, etc. if they tried to make it realistic they would be spending so much time classifying people it would almost be thought of as though the game were just a genocide simulator, with the war basically being a timelimit to clear out a continent.
They would try to do it within the reason of technology and budget they have. Also I find it more insulting to people and the event if you don't include it. In a other contexts besides video games imagine talking to people about what the Nazis did and only focusing on the invasion of France and, Stalingrad, and tank battles. Many people would mistake that as you having downplaying what else happened. Having the terrible stuff in it makes the majority of uneducated people or people lacking knowledge in history realize how bad the Nazis were. Additionally, if you only include the bad stuff the USSR did and not the Nazis in the game how do you think that makes the Nazis look in comparison to people who have no understanding of history. You will be surprised how people just think of the Nazis as this badass and great military who was over ambitious before they think of anything else about them.
 
I feel like the second Wolfenstein is, due to the fact that Grace keeps saying how all white Americans gave up and collaborated with the Nazis, helped put them in death camps, yaddayadda. Then the white communists who opposed the war are the only ones who think black people should be given equal rights.

BJ's about as stereotypically all-American as you can get and he's the main character, it's not particularly surprising that there are communists along for the ride given the historical nature of anti-fascist resistance movements.
 
BJ's about as stereotypically all-American as you can get and he's the main character, it's not particularly surprising that there are communists along for the ride given the historical nature of anti-fascist resistance movements.
He is half Jewish those so that makes him a natural target of the Nazis and unable to work with them in anyway unlike most white Americans.
 
He is half Jewish those so that makes him a natural target of the Nazis and unable to work with them in anyway unlike most white Americans.

I don't see how him being half-Jewish stops him from being stereotypically all-American, it adds background to his character but character development isn't the same as "political bias."
 
I don't see how him being half-Jewish stops him from being stereotypically all-American, it adds background to his character but character development isn't the same as "political bias."
It doesn't change him being that stereotype but it does relate to the bias the poster tried to point out. He isn't part of the mainstream white group due to his Jewish blood. In the game most whites beside communist for the most part bowed to the Nazis and worked with them after they won. I think that is the bias he was pointing to.
 
It doesn't change him being that stereotype but it does relate to the bias the poster tried to point out. He isn't part of the mainstream white group due to his Jewish blood. In the game most whites beside communist for the most part bowed to the Nazis and worked with them after they won. I think that is the bias he was pointing to.

Are Fergus and Wyatt white enough?
 
I would ask the poster more so then me but were both of them communist?

Neither were, I guess you could presume Fergus was on the left given his background but he never goes into depth about his politics and although Wyatt acts like a bit of a hippy for most of the game at the end of his campaign he gives a very cheesy patriotic speech in comparison to the more radical group effort in the Fergus campaign.

My only problem with Wolfstein is resistance should be higher in occupied America. Even racist Americans would often oppose of the Nazis.

After twelve years of occupation with their level of technology it's not surprising that most Americans whose existence the Nazis tolerate are simply trying to stay alive rather than actively rebel, many of the Americans you see in the game are clearly terrified of their rulers and when the revolution breaks out at the end it's emphasised how quickly people flock to the anti-fascist cause.
 
Neither were, I guess you could presume Fergus was on the left given his background but he never goes into depth about his politics and although Wyatt acts like a bit of a hippy for most of the game at the end of his campaign he gives a very cheesy patriotic speech in comparison to the more radical group effort in the Fergus campaign.



After twelve years of occupation with their level of technology it's not surprising that most Americans whose existence the Nazis tolerate are simply trying to stay alive rather than actively rebel, many of the Americans you see in the game are clearly terrified of their rulers and when the revolution breaks out at the end it's emphasised how quickly people flock to the anti-fascist cause.
Look at resistance fighters in the past 100 years. They have often been outclassed militarily and technology wise but win and have good support. America is a heavily armed nation and has great terrian for guerrilla warfare. The Nazis would also be much less brutal to populations they view as aryan especially given the German background of many Americans. They would still harshly punish resistance but not as badly as they would against Slavs, Jews, Blacks, and other people they consider non aryan. This can be seen when comparing the western and eastern front to each other in ww2. The Nazis would want to input a puppet government in America that has its own acceptable version of fascism that would match the region best. In France they would execute 5 people picked by the locals if a parsitan killed one German soldier. Out east they would round up over a 100 themselves and execute them for the death of one German soldiers. When a Jew killed Nazis or German officers they would kill entire villages of them or in the hundreds.
 
They would try to do it within the reason of technology and budget they have. Also I find it more insulting to people and the event if you don't include it. In a other contexts besides video games imagine talking to people about what the Nazis did and only focusing on the invasion of France and, Stalingrad, and tank battles. Many people would mistake that as you having downplaying what else happened. Having the terrible stuff in it makes the majority of uneducated people or people lacking knowledge in history realize how bad the Nazis were. Additionally, if you only include the bad stuff the USSR did and not the Nazis in the game how do you think that makes the Nazis look in comparison to people who have no understanding of history. You will be surprised how people just think of the Nazis as this badass and great military who was over ambitious before they think of anything else about them.
True, didn't need sink in to me that only the stuff with the Russians happened in that game. Haven't played it myself. I imagine that Crusader Kings II would be a good way for them to organize it, as it includes so many ethnicities, religions, subgroups, physical traits, various injuries and disabilities, and of course their genealogies that could be used, like so many dictatorships due, to take anyone related to someone and making them disappear. If a lot of those are applied to token signifying populations, then the various things with blots, imprisoning in obilloutes, seizing property, culture changes, etc. I am sure someone could have something like ethnic cleansing and pogroms, but Paradox Interactive jumps on mods and AARs involving it. To my knowledge. Come to think of it, didn't some space game they make end up like a genocide game? At least for some White Nationalists. And of course there was a space game where people could enslave others, and abused it. Well, I don't think it was originally meant for slavery, but people found a way.
 
Are Fergus and Wyatt white enough?
They're white, but they've also been in Europe the whole time. White people in America for a good chunk of the game are depicted as Nazi sympathizers who allowed the KKK to govern the south along side the Nazis.
 
It’s worth pointing out that OTL resistance to the Nazi’s was almost always led, or more effective, by the left. So much so that SOE actively supported left-wing resistance groups over right wing ones.

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Regarding HOI and the holocaust. It would destroy paradox interactive. The controversy is simply not worth it. It would be impossible to avoid the effusion or being a genocide simulator. An event acknowledging the Holocaust would be more acceptable, and there is an argument that if handled correctly it might be better than ignoring it all together. But mechanics around it? That’s completely unneeded and quite sickening.
 
I personally prefer full details and the whole story. I also don't think it is good to sugarcoat history especially in entertainment. Let's say you play Nazi germany in hearts of iron. You should have the option to implement the final solution or not with the in effects taking place. Or if your not playing Germany the ai does it 90 percent of the time or something like that. Look at crusader kings they have no issue putting the more brutal aspects of the time in there because it is more distant from recent times. But this point is probably due to public image issues and possible censorship more then biases.
I mean the reason for that is German anti-nazi laws IIRC. It's why Hitler is a silhouette in the German version of the game.
 
It’s worth pointing out that OTL resistance to the Nazi’s was almost always led, or more effective, by the left. So much so that SOE actively supported left-wing resistance groups over right wing ones.

—-

Regarding HOI and the holocaust. It would destroy paradox interactive. The controversy is simply not worth it. It would be impossible to avoid the effusion or being a genocide simulator. An event acknowledging the Holocaust would be more acceptable, and there is an argument that if handled correctly it might be better than ignoring it all together. But mechanics around it? That’s completely unneeded and quite sickening.
Events would be a good way of handling it
 
I mean the reason for that is German anti-nazi laws IIRC. It's why Hitler is a silhouette in the German version of the game.
You can just make a different version for Germany. Also I find those laws ironic and dumb. Censorship in most forms are wrong. Also in America at least we know who is a Nazi since they can be open about it unlike Germany. Better to know where the wolves are then have them pretending to be sheep.
 
You can just make a different version for Germany. Also I find those laws ironic and dumb. Censorship in most forms are wrong. Also in America at least we know who is a Nazi since they can be open about it unlike Germany. Better to know where the wolves are then have them pretending to be sheep.

It's like they think if anyone know about the Holocaust, then they will want to try and recreate it. It's stupid and ridiculous.
 
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