Any ways for Soviets to intervene during Pinochet coup?

[iVC]

I'm curious, if we take as granted that chilean military junta were able to prepare and launch their 1973 coup, could any imaginable kind of more active and avanturistic Soviet government salvage anything in the first hours?

I can remember many interviews with expelled or rogue pro-Allende activists who told the first hours during the coup were wasted because of everybody waited for Cubans or Soviets to come and lead the resistance. Many workers militia squad were told to sit back and wait for miraculous Soviet help to come.

So, which options Moscow truly had to offer? Formal declaration of war? Government-in-exile? Immediate transfer of some direct action airlift forces? Brezhnev, unflappably making a TV-translated declaration about Pinochet would be found and killed sooner or later?

 

[overoceans]

I can't see the Russians doing a lot, unless there was some armed, mass movement against Pinochet, along the lines of Castro's Communists or the Sandinistas, that they could get behind. And, even then, I don't think they'd be able to do any sort of lightning-strike action to prevent Pinochet from assuming office. It's not like they can just send troops across the border, as in Hungary and Czecholslovakia, or later Afghanistan.

 

[overoceans]

I can remember many interviews with expelled or rogue pro-Allende activists who told the first hours during the coup were wasted because of everybody waited for Cubans or Soviets to come and lead the resistance.

Interesting how the left-wing worldview and the right-wing worldview can converge over things like that. The Soviets just waltzing into South America to lead an armed countercoup is something that would seem plausible to the John Birch Society.

 

[iVC]

Interesting how the left-wing worldview and the right-wing worldview can converge over things like that. The Soviets just waltzing into South America to lead an armed countercoup is something that would seem plausible to the John Birch Society.

This could be a false hope actually spreaded by junta: no need to fight back actively, deus ex Kremlin will fix everything somehow. Luis Corvalan once said he truly waited for Soviet fleet arriving 'this day or tomorrow', and also there were rumours about Moscow radio transmitting a reassurance statements about failed coup etc.

 

[iVC]

It's a known fact that several soviet trade ships crews received safety threats from the coup leaders while these ones there anchored at Santiago. Outbreaks of violence also sparkled near the Cuban and Soviet embassies and any tragic death could serve as butterfly POD.

Therefore, situation could develop itself into something resembling 1975 Angolan 'fractioner coup'. with actual Cuban intervention.

 

[General Ripper]

Nothing that wouldn't cause US Pacific Fleet goeing down and sinking evereything Soviets have send...

 

[James G]

Nothing that wouldn't cause US Pacific Fleet goeing down and sinking evereything Soviets have send...

That would be an overreaction. Immediate WW3 wouldn't erupt over Chile. There'd be a more measured - still bloody - response including bombings, assassinations and accidents. the US would react stronger to Cuban involvement but then again, not outright military attacks in the open.
There still could be a real war, with South American nations united fighting in Chile at American behest with 'advisers', but the US v the Soviets and/or the Cubans isn't happening over Chile.

 

[iVC]

Nothing that wouldn't cause US Pacific Fleet goeing down and sinking evereything Soviets have send...

Quite a dubious decision: imagine a squadron group consisting of 2 Chapayev-class, 2 Moskva-class, 1 Kresta-II as a flagship and a bunch of Echo-II. And a pack of Cuban-based Tu-95. Allende had a formal aid request, old Brezhie is enraged and sparkes of fighting still active within Chile. Peru sympathy still possible due to leftist government. Chilean pilots would simply rebel against anyone who orders them to engage mentioned task force. US/USSR clash over Pinochet fate looks like complete ASB to me: not during Vietnam war.

 

[iVC]

There still could be a real war, with South American nations united fighting in Chile at American behest with 'advisers'

Peruan government was quite close to Warpac since 1968 and maintained close trade and tech relationships with Soviets.

 

[James G]

Peruan government was quite close to Warpac since 1968 and maintained close trade and tech relationships with Soviets.

Not everyone else. Southern Cone was a real thing but more so OAS back then.

 

[iVC]

Not everyone else. Southern Cone was a real thing but more so OAS back then.

So borderline intervention would be unevitable, nothing like just 'OK, reinstall your Corvalan and go to hell' thing? I'm also curious about Mexico position.

 

[Aphrodite]

There weren't hours wasted waiting for anyone- other than Allende trying to find Pinochet whom he was convinced was loyal. The coup was quick and succesful as every branch of the service was united in bringing down Allende. There weren't any forces loyal to Allende other than a few hundred National policemen who didn't realize that the Carbineros were joining the coup. Once they realize they were, they abandoned the palace and joined the coup.

The British could barely land a force on some islands 200 miles off t he coast of Argentina after weeks of preparation. Here the Soviets are going to be landing on the actual mainland of Chile and are going to need at least 50,000 men in the first wave. Not a chance. Allende dies within hours of the start of the coup and most of his supporters are rounded up by the end of the first day. There are no pro-Allende forces to rally

Now if some significant faction of the Chilean military was loyal to Allende, the Soviets might be able to send support to them and break the momentum of t he coup. It would take a couple of months at least to do that

 

[iVC]

There weren't hours wasted waiting for anyone- other than Allende trying to find Pinochet whom he was convinced was loyal. The coup was quick and succesful as every branch of the service was united in bringing down Allende. There weren't any forces loyal to Allende other than a few hundred National policemen who didn't realize that the Carbineros were joining the coup. Once they realize they were, they abandoned the palace and joined the coup.

The British could barely land a force on some islands 200 miles off t he coast of Argentina after weeks of preparation. Here the Soviets are going to be landing on the actual mainland of Chile and are going to need at least 50,000 men in the first wave. Not a chance. Allende dies within hours of the start of the coup and most of his supporters are rounded up by the end of the first day. There are no pro-Allende forces to rally

Now if some significant faction of the Chilean military was loyal to Allende, the Soviets might be able to send support to them and break the momentum of t he coup. It would take a couple of months at least to do that

I presume they (UK) would not dare to throw an airborne-landing division on the table. According to the manning tables, soviet airborne division could land a gun battalion, a howitzer battalion, plus a rocket artillery division plus a couple of a parachute regiments . Do not forget the ATGMs and the bunch of SA-7 in the every parachute regiments landing. Of course, direct landing in the Buenos-Aires 1982 would be a pure madness, but Santiago 1973 is the most other kind of target.

Also, as I remember, sparkles of guerilla warfare were in the Andes until 1977.

 

[GDIS Pathe]

I presume they (UK) would not dare to throw an airborne-landing division on the table. According to the manning tables, soviet airborne division could land a gun battalion, a howitzer battalion, plus a rocket artillery division plus a couple of a parachute regiments . Do not forget the ATGMs and the bunch of SA-7 in the every parachute regiments landing. Of course, direct landing in the Buenos-Aires 1982 would be a pure madness, but Santiago 1973 is the most other kind of target.

Also, as I remember, sparkles of guerilla warfare were in the Andes until 1977.

On a moments notice? Yeah, right they are totally gonna be able to do that in time to make difference, how much time to marshal the troops to assemble the= craft to make the operation won't be a complete cluster f*** when a single F5 makes an attack? not happening

 

[iVC]

On a moments notice? Yeah, right they are totally gonna be able to do that in time to make difference, how much time to marshal the troops to assemble the= craft to make the operation won't be a complete cluster f*** when a single F5 makes an attack? not happening

I do agree, my first thought was to use one of the GSFG airborne units, but actually there were none of them in the GDR. All of soviet airborne infantry were stationed in the Baltic states or near the Ryazan.

So, without any german-based immediate standby forces this controversial counter-coup would be buried in development hell, maybe weeks of drilling. No chance to change anything at this stage.

 

[riggerrob]

Russian aid would require pre-positioning arms, ammo and "technical advisors" throughout the country.

Pre-positioning would be difficult because of all the (CIA-paid) informants. The CIA kept a close watch on all of Latin America because they feared another Cuban-style revolution.

 

[nbcman]

Which coup do you mean? The June Coup that failed? The September Coup that succeeded? If the Soviets wait until September, there is nothing that they could do in the few hours between the start of that coup and President Allende's suicide. However, if the Soviets tried to move in 'advisors' in July or August 1973, the US would have either blockaded Chile or 'encouraged' another coup attempt to forestall the Soviets.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

I think the best thing the Soviets could do is to find out what the army generals are planning and to warn Allende on time. Couldn't the KGB or the Stasi (given the high number of German immigrant) place an agent within Chile's military?

 

[iVC]

Which coup do you mean? The June Coup that failed? The September Coup that succeeded?

June coup was just a riot of one of the fired panzer colonel's. It was very ill-prepared and Carlos Prats was able to stop it with sticks and harsh language.

It is surely a curious fact but until September Coup there were a lot of military officers who were thinking about Augusto Pinochet as 'Allende reptile'. Most of govt thought Pinochet was good loyal fellow, so no one really expected him to roar and rampage.

 

[GSpectre]

Intervention in the coupe would take either having existing forces stationed in Chile, beyond the drg agents who were training the presidential guard, which would be difficult especially given how resistant the military was to anything that smacked of communism. Any soviet advisers would have kicked off the coupe earlier. Alternately they would need to deploy from Bolivia or Peru... Which garentees that the Chilean military, along with the civilian population loses its Shit when troops roll over their borders. Launching from Bolivia also would mean stabilizing the situation there which would be damn difficult. A soviet deployment there would garentees a civil war breaking out with every one of their neighbors throwing troops into the pot on top of the US support which would be pouring into every rebel group in the country. Which leaves launching a counter coupe from Peru... Which is problematic to say the least. The Chilean military considered that one of its most dangerous borders and they have an excellent geographic advantage... Even units not involved in the coupe would have rallied to throw back the invaders, and the Chileans have always been a pretty professional force. They might be equipment light but they would be able to use what they had to inflict horrific casualties on the soviet and hold long enough for the US to start shipping them modern weapons wholesale. Then it becomes the soviet union invading a sovereign country, not launching a counter coupe...