any possible way for Spanish italian holdings to be free in the early 1600s

is there or were they doomed to be under spanish holdings until the 1700s? the reason I am asking this is because I have plans for an independent Italy for the TL I'm doing.
 
One option is to kill Pope Urban IV before he excommunicates Manfred the Hohenstaufen King of Sicily.
Or you could have Charles d'Anjou treating his Sicilian subjects more fairly and not trying to conquer Constantinople just after installing himself in the Kingdom of Sicily. That's should be enough to preempt the Sicilian vespers and Aragonese meddling in Southern Italy. This is however all way before the time period the op seems interested into. I think there is a chance by the mid xvii century to pass to a France prince, around the time of Masaniello's revolt, if Henry de Guise is more supported by Mazarin and acts as a better politician/diplomat. It is a very very long shot though... Maybe you could even have Cristina of Sweden crowned Queen of Naples (I love this POD personally, but I never managed to find a way to make it work realistically).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_Republic_(1647)

Unfortunately in both cases the island of Sicily itself would be excluded and remain to Spain until something like otl's War of Spanish Succession.
 
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Or you could have Charles d'Anjou treating his Sicilian subjects more fairly and not trying to conquer Constantinople just after installing himself in the Kingdom of Sicily. That's should be enough to preempt the Sicilian vespers and Aragonese meddling in Southern Italy. This is however all way before the time period the op seems interested into. I think there is a chance by the mid xvii century to pass to a France prince, around the time of Masaniello's revolt, if Henry de Guise is more supported by Mazarin and acts as a better politician/diplomat. It is a very very long shot though... Maybe you could even have Cristina of Sweden crowned Queen of Naples (I love this POD personally, but I never managed to find a way to make it work realistically).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neapolitan_Republic_(1647)

Unfortunately in both cases the island of Sicily itself would be excluded and remain to Spain until something like otl's War of Spanish Succession.

One option is to kill Pope Urban IV before he excommunicates Manfred the Hohenstaufen King of Sicily.

I geuss I should've said this in the OP, but I forgot. happens. I meant to put within the timeframe of 1580-1620. but If it couldn't have been done, then I'll definately incorporate the Neopolitin republic, but that still leaves out Florence, Milan, and Tuscany.
 
Give any of the Habsburg Kings of Spain 3 or more Male Kids and you can easily justify breaking the distant parts of the Empire Off into their own lands. Charles V or Philip II would both work fine for this. Actually Philip II could possibly work the best as there were already plans to split the Spanish Empire in the event of Multiple Children. Then you could get the Eldest ruling Spain and eventually Portugal, the Second ruling England and The Netherlands, possibly the Whole Netherlands, and the Third ruling the Italian Territories with a Kingdom centered on Naples.
 
Could the King break the component parts of the Crown of Aragon? I mean Charles did give Naples to Philip before his abdications, but Phlip was his heir so the division wasn't meant to be permanent.
 

Vitruvius

Donor
The Neapolitan Republic is the best opportunity. Have Urban VIII live longer or have Sachetti elected to succeed him and then it will get Papal backing. Also eliminate Guise. He was close at hand in Rome trying to secure a dispensation or annulment of or for one of his quasi-legitimate marriages. If he's not around the French can dispatch a more capable leader who then gets the backing of the Pope. Spain is at its nadir so there's at least a chance it could work.
 
I was thinking, why not have Phillip III or Phillip IV get a bout of insanity after a encounter with smallpox triggers it. It's happened before (I think). could lead to North Italy and Naples being more free in the 1600s or is this just a dumb idea?
 
is there or were they doomed to be under spanish holdings until the 1700s? the reason I am asking this is because I have plans for an independent Italy for the TL I'm doing.

As others already said, Italy was uncurably divided by that time. And it had been so for centuries. It is a finding Machiavelli had already made and deplored in the early 16th century.

Italy was a prey either for Germany (the HRE), France or Spain (Aragon-Castile).

This division made northern Italy the most innovative area of Europe from around year 1000 on, as It did for Greece in ancient times. But It also was Italy's curse, making an irresistibly tempting prey for its less divided hence more powerful neighbours.

The last opportunity for Italy to centralize before being conquered was during the hundred years war, when France, England and Castile were torn by outer and inner conflicts (the HRE already being a terrible mess since the 13th century).

And this opportunity should take the shape of an union of Milan, Tuscany and Venice ideally happening before the great schism, that is when the pope resided in Avignon. This would ease Rome being conquered by this north italian State. And then this north Italian State could deal with Naples-Sicily and Savoy. If It happens soon enough, they could even grab Provence before France does.

Then imagine : Colombus, Vespucci, Verrazano, ... etc.

Quite easy to have most of Americas becoming New Italy.
 
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