Any ingredient of Mongol victory & Russian defeat still relevant for Napoleon to draw upon?

Fenestella

Banned
Is there any lesson from Mongol victory over Rus' that might be helpful for Napoleon to plan and conduct his Russian campaign?
 
Invade from the southeast, not the west.

Also, do you plan on opening a third one of these for Charles XII?
 
When it comes to conquering Russia, the French Grand Army is a bunch of girl-scouts (in comparison with the Mongols).

Just one aspect:

- What did the Mongols do during Russian winter?
- It was sweeping conquest of Rus, easy to cross the frozen rivers, swamps, marches; hard safe ground to ride on; living of the ground, no train of supplies; no summer heat and mosquitoes - nice and easy.

- What did the French Grand Army do in Russian winter?
- It was dying of frost and hunger mostly...
 
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The conditions are too hard to speculate upon if we ignore the massive ammounts of butterflies.
Because, even if the Golden Horde manages to survive up to the 19th century and is invaded by a Napoleon-like figure, it is most probable that they won't remain as nomadic horse archers when it comes to warfare. They'll probably adopt gunpowder.
I mean, sure, this Napoleon-expy could capitalize on the russian vassal states of the GH switching sides to his own, but that would imply that such russian statelets were left to grow unchecked in their military prowess by a rather stupid GH leadership.
 
The conditions are too hard to speculate upon if we ignore the massive ammounts of butterflies.
Because, even if the Golden Horde manages to survive up to the 19th century and is invaded by a Napoleon-like figure, it is most probable that they won't remain as nomadic horse archers when it comes to warfare. They'll probably adopt gunpowder.
I mean, sure, this Napoleon-expy could capitalize on the russian vassal states of the GH switching sides to his own, but that would imply that such russian statelets were left to grow unchecked in their military prowess by a rather stupid GH leadership.

That's pretty clearly not what the OP meant. They were just asking if there were tactical or strategic lessons from the OTL Mongol invasion of Russia that Napoleon could have made better use of in his OTL invasion of Russia. No more, no less.
 
That's pretty clearly not what the OP meant. They were just asking if there were tactical or strategic lessons from the OTL Mongol invasion of Russia that Napoleon could have made better use of in his OTL invasion of Russia. No more, no less.
My bad, sorry then.
I'll question, still: the mongol cavalry archers were only effective for as long as their enemies were unaware that gunpowder existed. Overall, the mongol conquest of Russia was a piecemeal effort: done through exploiting local rivalries, making an alliance with the Teutonic Knights, and, above all, catching the russians by surprise. Sure, the russians were accostumed to fending off border raids from turkic tribes, but they didn't expect a full-scale invasion.
Overall, Napoleon's russian campaign was totally different. His invasion of Russia was a single campaign, aimed at forcing the tsar (who controlled the whole of Russia, making it very difficult for Napoleon to seek local alliances like the mongols) to accept the terms of the Continental System, rather than conquering his territory. He was invading from the west, not the southeast. And large-scale usage of horses would not be a good idea, due to the existence of gunpowder weapons.
Thus, i'm afraid the only mildly effective tactic Napoleon could have used to fight the russians would be flinging diseased corpses into besieged fortresses.
 
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longsword14

Banned
Yes, that unlike the Mongols, whose first campaign was punitive and fast, the force assembled was not capable of closing a campaign quickly.
The easiest way to force ;the Russians to come back to the table was to carve out a great part of their conquests of the 18th century.
 
Use mobile cavalry instead of marching infantry? That and having a more self-sufficient army are the only things I can think of.
 
The easiest way to force ;the Russians to come back to the table was to carve out a great part of their conquests of the 18th century.

How would they go about that?

The territories concerned covered a vast area, and the GA could occupy only one small corner at a time. As soon as it moved on, the area where it had been before would be reoccupied (or laid waste) by the Russians.
 
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