Any good Denmark TLs post Kalmar Union

ben0628

Banned
Thanks for taking the effort to look for one, appreciate it.

Unfortunately however, I'm looking for something that doesn't involve the Kalmar union. For some reason I have always been interested in 17th century Denmark-Norway and the potential it had for becoming powerful in a way that doesn't include conquering the Swedes.
 
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while certainly not a focus of the TL, Disaster at Leuthen does have a very powerful Denmark-Norway, without really conquering much of Sweden other than the parts that Sweden conquered in the period surrounding 30 years war.
 

Redbeard

Banned
If the Danish Straits had not been frozen over in January and Feburary 1658 Sweden probably wouldn't have gained the provinces east of Oeresund - that would have meant a quite difference balance in the region in the favour of Denmark-Norway. The Danish Straits are very rarely frozen over - a couple of times each century.

Without the "Chess-mate" from the frozen straits the Swedes probably would have found themselves in a very difficult situation, as Brandenburg and the HRE had decided to enter the war on Danish-Norwegian side. An army already was on the way.

In contrast to OTL this war could very well have ended with Sweden's decline starting many decades ahead. This will in itself leave Denmark-Norway in a better position, but much will depend on what happens in Germany in the next couple of centuries.


All-in-all Brandenburg/Prussia will be more squeezed if/when she attempts to go for the German supremacy. Denmark-Norway will be an ideal partner for the Habsburgs (or others) who what to check Prussian advance.

Could mean a Danish-Norwegian Monarch ruling large parts of North Germany, but also some tense conflicts if/when the Germans start getting ideas about the German nation etc.

Another tricky balance is vs. the British. The Danes and Norwegians will be very oriented towards overseas trade but the British in many ways are blocking the Danish-Norwegian access to the big markets - and they will be competitors.

I could see many conflicts with the British and Danes-Norwegians on different sides. It would most likely put a limit on how much of an "Empire" we can expect from the Danes-Norwegians, but it will also be very costly to the British, and all-in-all the British will have a harder time being decisive in the European (or Global) powerplay.
 

ben0628

Banned
I would really like to see a tl where Denmark remains in control of Skane and is able to properly maintain the sound toll into the modern day. Would also be interested in Denmark consolidating its control of Holstein by capturing Hamburg and Lubeck and building a wall or series of fortresses between them. Maybe have them do better in Thirty Years War
 

Vitruvius

Donor
Not a TL, but I've always been interested in the what if of John of Denmark, the son of Christian II. If he had a lived a few more years he could have contested the election at the death of the usurper Frederick I. As it was OTL the election initially split between Frederick's eldest and thoroughly protestant son, OTL Christian III, and his younger son by his second wife, John of Schleswig-Holstein-Haderslev, who was favored by the Catholics. However the latter was just a teenager. John of Denmark would have only been a few years older but he had a good reputation and more importantly he was half-Habsburg, through is mother Isabella of Austria, so he can get some foreign backing.

I don't know enough about all the players to know how it would work out. Christian II is alive and imprisoned in Denmark, which complicates things and possibly the two Johns just further split the Catholic faction and secure the throne more easily for Christian. But if Christian II would to renounce in favor of his son and the John's brokered a deal whereby John of Denmark becomes King and the other becomes Duke of all of Schleswig-Holstein maybe it could work? Given the shift towards Lutheranism that occurred under Christian III it could be a major POD if it played out differently.
 

Redbeard

Banned
Not a TL, but I've always been interested in the what if of John of Denmark, the son of Christian II. If he had a lived a few more years he could have contested the election at the death of the usurper Frederick I. As it was OTL the election initially split between Frederick's eldest and thoroughly protestant son, OTL Christian III, and his younger son by his second wife, John of Schleswig-Holstein-Haderslev, who was favored by the Catholics. However the latter was just a teenager. John of Denmark would have only been a few years older but he had a good reputation and more importantly he was half-Habsburg, through is mother Isabella of Austria, so he can get some foreign backing.

I don't know enough about all the players to know how it would work out. Christian II is alive and imprisoned in Denmark, which complicates things and possibly the two Johns just further split the Catholic faction and secure the throne more easily for Christian. But if Christian II would to renounce in favor of his son and the John's brokered a deal whereby John of Denmark becomes King and the other becomes Duke of all of Schleswig-Holstein maybe it could work? Given the shift towards Lutheranism that occurred under Christian III it could be a major POD if it played out differently.

Many PoDs could be found around this time. Another could be King Hans (John) - the father of Christian II, not suffering the humiliation of his Holsten Knights being defeated by Ditmarsk peasants in year 1500. The event pretty much broke King Hans' creditability as a ruler and his self-confidence too. Short of that experience it would be quite likely, that the parts of the Swedish nobility opposing the Kalmar Union had been broken in the early 1500s. But you of course say that this not really a post Kalmar PoD.
 
I like the idea

What about reforming the Kalmar Union and/or, driving forth a sense of Pan-Scandinavian nationalism somewhere between the mid-XVIII century and the Napoleonic era?
 
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