Another Possible Rome Survives TL

Gaius Julius Magnus

Gone Fishin'
So I plan on creating my own Rome survives timeline down the line and here's a map that I plan on having the world eventually look like. I would like to hear some thoughts or suggestions of what to do.


Map 8.png

Map 8.png
 
So I plan on creating my own Rome survives timeline down the line and here's a map that I plan on having the world eventually look like. I would like to hear some thoughts or suggestions of what to do.

TBH, that's not very plausible, if not completely impossible. You'll want to scale down on those empires and ignore the new world at the very least before we move on. Super spacefilling empires a la 1984 just aren't going to happen with a Roman age POD. Or with almost any POD.

What's your thought for a POD? I guess that would be the first place to start - is your idea along the lines of Caesar not being assassinated? Is it around Rome's height, like during the Five Good Emperors period? Or is it towards the end of the empire, like around Constantine and Julian the Apostate's time? Or even past that period? From there, more thought can be put into how to get Rome to reach your European and Asian borders - or at least to get as close to those as possible, because neither would be very easy to do.
 

Gaius Julius Magnus

Gone Fishin'
TBH, that's not very plausible, if not completely impossible. You'll want to scale down on those empires and ignore the new world at the very least before we move on. Super spacefilling empires a la 1984 just aren't going to happen with a Roman age POD. Or with almost any POD.

What's your thought for a POD? I guess that would be the first place to start - is your idea along the lines of Caesar not being assassinated? Is it around Rome's height, like during the Five Good Emperors period? Or is it towards the end of the empire, like around Constantine and Julian the Apostate's time? Or even past that period? From there, more thought can be put into how to get Rome to reach your European and Asian borders - or at least to get as close to those as possible, because neither would be very easy to do.
I was think of Caesae living on or Commudus not becoming Empeoror
 
I was think of Caesae living on or Commudus not becoming Empeoror

I should think Caesar living would be your better choice. He's got the Parthian campaign, which theoretically could provide a base for further expansion into Asia beyond the Euphrates (which is probably the point where Caesar would stop his Parthian conquests, assuming success of course), and expansion into all of Germania wasn't a tried and largely failed idea yet. Plus he was planning a Dacian campaign too... so there's at least a beginning for those territories north of the Danube. I'll tell you that it's still very hard to see Rome reaching those European/Asian borders (ignoring Africa), but Caesar living is your best chance at justifying it.
 
I fail to see why the Aztecs and Incans would be so much more powerful if Rome survived. Why wouldn't Rome just conquer them like Spain did? Why weren't they massively weakened by disease?
 
Here's what is hopefully a better map

You need to employ some butterflies here. Would Islam or Christianity still exist if Caesar lived? The Kievan Rus? Aztecs and Incans? And still, those empires are enormous, even if they are smaller than the original map - all of them (except Rome in Europe/Asia) still go beyond natural borders and, tbh, don't make a whole lot of sense. And Rome's influence in sub-Saharan Africa is... doubtful, to say the least, at least with the height of their technology.

Word of advice.

Story first, maps later.

Absolutely seconded. Think out your POD and the logical steps after it... don't worry about it's effects five hundred or a thousand or however many years down the road until you're ready for that point with a backstory. If you really want this to happen and for us to talk about this several hundred years or more after your intended POD, try and justify it to us with more than just maps of your grand ideas.
 
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JJohnson

Banned
I'd be interested in seeing how you evolve the story, certainly. However Rome survives, I'm assuming as a Latin-speaking empire, coherent enough that someone from the OTL Normandy area can understand without much difficulty, a person from Carthage or OTL Romania.

As for territory, I'd amend your map, due to the likelihood of Vikings still happening, giving portions of England, Scotland, Ireland (similar to the Danelaw of OTL) to the Norse, along with the Newfoundland/Labrador region, and get rid of the 49° parallel, as that's not too likely to happen this timeline. Goths, Burgundians, Vandals I could see being set up as clients allowed to keep their language in Iberia and North Africa, and in Germania. Slavs will probably still set up their own kingdom, which might fragment at some point in time, and change shape. The middle east, if Rome survives, I think would stay Christian and butterfly away Islam, and keep whatever pre-Islam religions were in Arabia at the time. Africa would possibly be a series of kingdoms, not just space-filling empires, based on tribes, or whenever Rome gets to them to divy them up into provinces.

I would agree with a prior post that the Romans would likely, if they get to the New World, would devastate the natives much like OTL, and enslave them, and after a while, allow citizenship, and client-state status at some point. My Roman history is not 100% perfect, but I think fringe states are more likely to break from Rome in Europe.

Good luck on writing the story, and I hope you enjoy creating it as well!
 
How do the Aztecs manage to survive in this timeline? There entire system of government is based upon the constant expansion of their empire to ensure a continuous flow of resources and sacrifices. Once they meet an enemy that can't be conquered in a certain period of time (which the Roman Empire appears to be in this world), then their implosion is almost certain unless they reform their society on a fundamental level.
 
Also,

> Japanese Empire expanding across the Pacific

> Mongolians (possibly) still conquering much of Asia

> (Possible) Caliphate.

I don't think you really know how this "alternate history" thing works on this board. This would be a cool pulp universe though, or for some light-hearted RPG campaign, so I shouldn't really be this condescending. I would just encourage you to plant your tongue firmly in cheek if you are going to take the world in the direction I think you are.
 
Srivijaya

I would be interested in a Srivijayan-bugis empire. The core would be most of Indonesia plus Malaysia. They were colonizing Madagascar at that time. Add Madagascar and South East Africa. Add the Bugis and they would be colonizing Northern Australia. Most of the Japanase Empire and much of the Indian Empire shown on the map could actually be Srivijayan.
I think you would need to butterfly Islam.
 
I don't see why you have a muslim empire if the POD is Caesar. The butterflies are just too great for that too happen. I also don't see why Rome would lose it's holding in the East and most of Africa.

Flesh out your story before making a map. It's hard to critique maps without knowing the full story.
 
great minds think alike

I was thinking of doing something similar.

But i'm still taing to find some data.

Like how close was(will be) Rome to the industrial revolution if lets say the conquered Parthia and Germania.

Could Han dynasty invent cannons if they invest more money on army ?

Can elephants live in Australia in large numbers?
 
I'd be interested in seeing how you evolve the story, certainly. However Rome survives, I'm assuming as a Latin-speaking empire, coherent enough that someone from the OTL Normandy area can understand without much difficulty, a person from Carthage or OTL Romania.

As for territory, I'd amend your map, due to the likelihood of Vikings still happening, giving portions of England, Scotland, Ireland (similar to the Danelaw of OTL) to the Norse, along with the Newfoundland/Labrador region, and get rid of the 49° parallel, as that's not too likely to happen this timeline. Goths, Burgundians, Vandals I could see being set up as clients allowed to keep their language in Iberia and North Africa, and in Germania. Slavs will probably still set up their own kingdom, which might fragment at some point in time, and change shape. The middle east, if Rome survives, I think would stay Christian and butterfly away Islam, and keep whatever pre-Islam religions were in Arabia at the time. Africa would possibly be a series of kingdoms, not just space-filling empires, based on tribes, or whenever Rome gets to them to divy them up into provinces.

I would agree with a prior post that the Romans would likely, if they get to the New World, would devastate the natives much like OTL, and enslave them, and after a while, allow citizenship, and client-state status at some point. My Roman history is not 100% perfect, but I think fringe states are more likely to break from Rome in Europe.

Good luck on writing the story, and I hope you enjoy creating it as well!

You assume "A Latin speaking Empire"? quite a wrong assumption,since more than 55% of the Empire speaks Greek...
 
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