Another Großdeutschland Thread

So, everyone knows about the famous Frankfurt Parliament, the offer to the Hapsburgs and the Hozhollerens, and their refusals. But, what if one of them accepted? The Hapsburgs could either release Hungary as a seperate (Viceroyalty? Kingdom?) or actually keep it in Großdeutchland, both of which are rather unprobable, with the latter completely ASB. The Hozhollerens would have to accept 'the crown from the gutter'. But, Im sure it wont take too much handwavium or actual good PoD's to make one of them accept the throne.

So, what PoD would work? And then the real question- What would this mean for Europe and the world? Would the capital be in Berlin, Frankfurt, or Vienna? What would the internal reforms mean for the average Germans? How would the other powers react? How will this affect the rest of the 19th century, and will the union survive into the 20th and become a superpower?

Discuss.;)
 
In building a "Gross Deutschland" scenario for my Course of Human Events TL I considered the wisdom found here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=112428

Aussie Guy also has a good Frankfurter TL, which I've consulted: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=122432

The key alternate events I'm using in order to pave the way for Gross Deutschland are:
A successful revolution in Hungary (w/a certain prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha -who had to marry someone else in TTL as Q-V did not exist- as king)
The defeat of the Austrian army at the hands of Piedmont-Sardinia in Lombardy-Venetia
As my "1848" is happens in 1855, a slightly older Archduke Franz of Austria is KIA.
Independence for Czechia (w/a prince from the House of Leichtenstein as king) and Slovenia (w/a archduke Habsburg king)
Russia is busy fighting in Poland, the Caucases and eventually the Danubian Principalities
The Frankfurt Assembly does not lose momentum

I look forward to reading what others have to say on this topic.

Cheers,
LG
 

Eurofed

Banned
Darn, I was going to write something similar.:mad:

Both Lord Grattan's and Aussie Guy's TLs were very good, but I beseech you not to drop the idea. I'd love to see a successful 1848 Grossdeutchsland done with your usual excellent gist for strategic issues.
 
I'd love to see a 1848 TL; the only twixt is that I would prefer to have revolutions in Milan and Venetia who don't loose momentum and bow to the Savoy, but rather bag all of Italy. One day I'll have to do it myself, because I never found takers. All bloody monarchists :p
 
I'd love to see a 1848 TL; the only twixt is that I would prefer to have revolutions in Milan and Venetia who don't loose momentum and bow to the Savoy, but rather bag all of Italy. One day I'll have to do it myself, because I never found takers. All bloody monarchists :p

It is indeed a shame that we're all reactionaries on this board. I'm a socialist in real life but even I go weak at the knees at the thought of a return of the Tsar and the Emperor of Austria.

:D

It would be an interesting thing to see though, I wonder if a liberal revolution in northern Italy would lead to the formation of a confederation of city states rather than the united and centralised kingdom that we got in OTL.
 
Aussie Guy also has a good Frankfurter TL, which I've consulted: https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=122432

The key alternate events I'm using in order to pave the way for Gross Deutschland are:
A successful revolution in Hungary (w/a certain prince of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha -who had to marry someone else in TTL as Q-V did not exist- as king)
The defeat of the Austrian army at the hands of Piedmont-Sardinia in Lombardy-Venetia
As my "1848" is happens in 1855, a slightly older Archduke Franz of Austria is KIA.
Independence for Czechia (w/a prince from the House of Leichtenstein as king) and Slovenia (w/a archduke Habsburg king)
Russia is busy fighting in Poland, the Caucases and eventually the Danubian Principalities
The Frankfurt Assembly does not lose momentum

I look forward to reading what others have to say on this topic.

Cheers,
LG
Sounds interesting. And of course I was an avid follower of Frankfurter.;)

Darn, I was going to write something similar.:mad:
Go for it, but for the sake of your readers, dont post so fast and so long.:D
 
I heartily disagree. :p;) Anything that is slow enough to let me make comments is fine IMO.
No, OW's TLs are excellent (from their frist post) but I simply dont have time to read whole masses of text so fast!
OW, do you write all the parts from beforehand, or do you just write extroadinarily fast?:p
 

Eurofed

Banned
No, OW's TLs are excellent (from their frist post) but I simply dont have time to read whole masses of text so fast!

Apparently I'm a faster reader than others, so his writing speed doesn't bother me. :cool: Even if, on second, leisurely reading, I sometimes spot mistakes than I did not notice on first reading.

OW, do you write all the parts from beforehand, or do you just write extroadinarily fast?:p

I suspect it's the latter. :eek:
 
:D
It is indeed a shame that we're all reactionaries on this board. I'm a socialist in real life but even I go weak at the knees at the thought of a return of the Tsar and the Emperor of Austria.

:D

It would be an interesting thing to see though, I wonder if a liberal revolution in northern Italy would lead to the formation of a confederation of city states rather than the united and centralised kingdom that we got in OTL.

I would think something along the line of the Swiss confederation; the sticky point is as usual the pope and his states. Although if 1848 goes the liberal way(Germany unified by the Frankfurt parliament, Hungary indepedent and an Italian confederation; and no Napoleon in France :D), no one will pay attention to the pope.
 

Eurofed

Banned
:D

I would think something along the line of the Swiss confederation; the sticky point is as usual the pope and his states. Although if 1848 goes the liberal way(Germany unified by the Frankfurt parliament, Hungary indepedent and an Italian confederation; and no Napoleon in France :D), no one will pay attention to the pope.

Indeed. With a liberal Germany, Italy, and France a theocratic Pope would totally lack the political backing to stage anything like the comeback of our and FC's TLs. Which, after some time (say a Pope or two), should pave the way to a liberal-progressive reform of the whole Catholic Church.

Which, by the way, is the outcome I am tentatively assuming to ccur for my other Ameriwank TL. With Germany, Italy, France, Russia, and Spain under the control of moderate conservative-liberal monarchies, and South America mostly partitioned between America and Britain, a reactionary Pope has literally nowhere to turn (well, maybe Brazil).

However, I still assume that if a German unification occurs under a federal liberal-national Habsburg/Honenzollern constitutional monarchy, a very similar outcome in Italy under the Savoia is far, far more likely than the victory of the Lombard/Venetian republicans. I suggest to stick to politically plausible outcomes, a radical republican Italian or German unification in 1848 was very politically unplausible, those fringes lacked mainstream support within and sympathy without.
 
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