If worst comes to worst, you could bring some of the French and Italian
Another false start
- Thread starter Rorke
- Start date
SsgtC
Banned
Hell, you might even be able to persuade Japan to send the 4 Kongo class ships along with the Kawachi and Fuso classes. That's another 8 capital ships.
SsgtC
Banned
Probably. You might get away with one later, but you have a very small window between when the US declares war and when actual American ships and men begin arriving
Late 1916 the plan is laid out and construction was never slowed on the Bayerns. 1917 Spring Offensive in conjunction with the raid
Yup.
Before US entry, Germany only had a marginal chance of impacting the course of the sea at war. After US entry, that marginal chance was reduced to basically zero, because now the British have tentative call on sixteen US dreadnoughts.
What is left for the HSF is to make some contribution to the land campaign, which is why you see timelines like Eternity's that focus on significantly disrupting supply lines across the Channel.
What gives to allow the last two Bayerns to be constructed? That's a lot of resources, and they have to come from somewhere that used them OTL.
How about less of a reduction in ship construction, a march 1917 decision and throw in a mine field and/or a submarine picket line.
These factors never got to work iotl, but there is no reason they couldn’t work with a bit of luck to even the scores.
Ps. The more ready ships would be the POD leading to the other decisions
These factors never got to work iotl, but there is no reason they couldn’t work with a bit of luck to even the scores.
Ps. The more ready ships would be the POD leading to the other decisions
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Go for a 1914 battle, to interrupt the BEF movement to France?
The British advantage in battle line and light forces grows every month the war goes on. It's the best chance of a victory, and even defeat might achieve a strategic goal, by disrupting the Entente response to the German attack on France.
The British advantage in battle line and light forces grows every month the war goes on. It's the best chance of a victory, and even defeat might achieve a strategic goal, by disrupting the Entente response to the German attack on France.
SsgtC
Banned
IOTL, construction was slowed to a crawl in 1914 before being suspended entirely in 1917. I think if you don't slow construction as much you can spread the pain out more so it's not as noticable. Maybe a couple of destroyer flotillas are down a ship or two, a handful of subs over 3 yesterday don't get built. Conversely, by 1917 the ships are practically done
IMO all other things being Equal - Germany has to win before the end of 1st 'Wipers' Ypres (19 October – 22 November 1914).
After that on land things are too closely matched for one side to beat the other
At sea Britain was too strong for the HSF and did not seem obliged to adopt Germany's 'chosen tactic for the British' of conducting the close blockade and allowing Germany to adopt the advantageous tactics that might have evened out the strength of both fleets in Germany's favor.
Perfidious Albion!
So any POD at sea has to be as suggested King Augeas to interrupt movement of BEF forces over the months after the war starts to possibly help allow Germany win the race for the Sea, blockade easy movement from the UK to Northern France (which is a big ask) and somehow invest Paris.
The problem is other than some minor successes I cannot see Germany blocking British movement across the Channel for more than a day or 2 if not mere hours before the GF turns up and the HSF remembers that it has urgent business at the Jade.
And given the short distances involved they are unlikely to cause many losses - ie they are not going to wipe out an entire division of troops by sinking a troops ship sort of meme.
After that on land things are too closely matched for one side to beat the other
At sea Britain was too strong for the HSF and did not seem obliged to adopt Germany's 'chosen tactic for the British' of conducting the close blockade and allowing Germany to adopt the advantageous tactics that might have evened out the strength of both fleets in Germany's favor.
Perfidious Albion!
So any POD at sea has to be as suggested King Augeas to interrupt movement of BEF forces over the months after the war starts to possibly help allow Germany win the race for the Sea, blockade easy movement from the UK to Northern France (which is a big ask) and somehow invest Paris.
The problem is other than some minor successes I cannot see Germany blocking British movement across the Channel for more than a day or 2 if not mere hours before the GF turns up and the HSF remembers that it has urgent business at the Jade.
And given the short distances involved they are unlikely to cause many losses - ie they are not going to wipe out an entire division of troops by sinking a troops ship sort of meme.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
I would suggest researching the late war convoys to Norway, and the attempt to lay a mine barrage across the top of the North Sea. I recall that occasionally the BCF or the 6BS would sally out to catch any raiders. Perhaps have the HSF twig their emails are being read and lay a trap for the isolated squadron. A submarine ambush of the rest of the Grand Fleet could whittle away a few more dreadnoughts (not necessarily sunk but damaged enough to miss the next round).
So, the the RN & USN busting to get even, rush down from Rosyth when the original raid on the Thames estuary / Channel traffic is launched and some more mistakes are made.
I agree with most that OTL the HSF would have to either run or be crushed in late '18, but you have here the possibility of a strong final stand that ends in defeat but disrupts traffic & hits Allied morale as for the third time the main fleets have clashed and none have been a second Trafalgar.
I would also add that you should only write when it is enjoyable for you; if it's not then stop and wait until it is fun again. If you do want to pitch your original version then I would suggest one of the naval fiction forums, as anything seems to go there!
So, the the RN & USN busting to get even, rush down from Rosyth when the original raid on the Thames estuary / Channel traffic is launched and some more mistakes are made.
I agree with most that OTL the HSF would have to either run or be crushed in late '18, but you have here the possibility of a strong final stand that ends in defeat but disrupts traffic & hits Allied morale as for the third time the main fleets have clashed and none have been a second Trafalgar.
I would also add that you should only write when it is enjoyable for you; if it's not then stop and wait until it is fun again. If you do want to pitch your original version then I would suggest one of the naval fiction forums, as anything seems to go there!