Unfortunately not. But perhaps the lack of religious differences will mean a better outcome for the Irish here.The Irish are still getting crushed. Some things never change.
Yes, Catherine has gotten a great send off. It's fitting for her to leave us in the chapter when we finally hit 100,000 words!Good chapter--the more things change, the more they stay the same (with the Irish still getting put down). This is a much better end for Catherine than OTL's, IMO...
Unfortunately, England is likely to keep their interest in Ireland.Great Update, always nice to see Ireland, though hopefully, We can get a split Ireland, Gaelic West/North/Deep South and English East/South, hegemonic England not annexing the Gaelic Chiefs would be cool too.
What possible reason would the rebel Ormond have to think the Pope would support him over Queen Mary? In OTL obviously, there was the religious difference, claiming to defend the Catholics from Henry's reaving, but there would appear to be nothing in TTL that would bring him to think that anything would cause the Pope to support a rebel against his legitimate sovereign. Interesting tidbit about the begging, does that apply to the mendicant orders? they would be able-bodied men who could work, but support themselves and their preaching through begging. Is that a thing Henry or Elizabeth did in OTL?
I love Catherine reaching her final reward, a well deserved send off for her, though deeply ironic epitaph considering OTL.
As for Ormond: It's not as wild as you think. Even in the 1520s, way before Henry VIII's religious controversies, the Anglo-Irish Earls still tried and often failed to seek out foreign support for their causes. This included not only the Pope, but Charles V as well. In this situation, Ormond would probably seek out Pius V because of his warm relationship with France. Even without the religious issues, Mary remains close to her Habsburg relatives and relations, while cordial between Pius V and them, aren't super warm. So I don't see him reaching out to Pius V as too wild, IMO. A desperate man does desperate things.
As for the begging, this would not apply against mendicant orders. The laws target vagrants and vagabounds; the old and infirm can apply for licenses to beg, while punishments are meted out to the idle poor: those without occupations or work who are in this period seen as trying to beg instead of finding an honest occupation. As the mendicant orders have occupations as preachers but merely beg as a way to support their mission, they would be exempt. The Vagabond Laws are based on some of the laws passed during Henry VIII's reign, such as the licenses for begging. Some of his laws had more draconian measures, such as cutting off ears for second offenses and execution for the third, but the justices largely balked at enforcing such measures. Mary's stopped here at whipping, which is an upgraded punishment from previous laws in Henry VII's time which merely included locking them into stocks for three days. We still haven't moved towards any true Poor Laws, which is unlikely, as the monasteries are still around. The Tudor era poor laws were a response to the great poverty unleashed by the destruction of the monasteries and religious orders who had traditionally provided such services.
I think things will still be somewhat rocky. Instead of a religious mission, it's quite possible the English look upon their mission in Ireland as a civilizing one, instead of a conflict riven by religious issues. Hence the desire to still increase central authority there and to bring the Gaelic clans under English dominion.And so we return to England, where everything seemingly is going well! The royal dynasty grows, and they have crushed the Irish rebellion! I do hope, that eventually the Irish will get a better deal than what happened otl. With no Protestantism in Britain, that should be possible
We shall have to see what is store with Mary!Hmmm.
Like there is more grief in store for Mary just yet.
The birth of Henry and hint at future sons especially has me thinking that not all of her kids- especially maybe future kids- will make it.
If England and Scotland stay rivals, it would be really cool to see either side engage in some Gaelic diplomacy- perhaps the English governors court in Ireland or the Scottish court decide to patronise Classical Gaelic poets from the whole area where that literary language is used, hoping that if the Scottish Gaelic clans see people linked to their clan gaining wealth and prestige under the English they’d be more likely to declare for the English in a future war, or vice versa if Irish Gaelic nobility see Irish poets in the Scottish court, it might allow Scotland a bridgehead into Ireland in the future. Even though the spoken languages have diverged, they’re both referred to at this point as Irish and share the same literary standard.
Either way, giving classical Gaelic a home in an official government court makes it more likely it ends up used as an administrative language eventually.
Also what I think is an important change here is that official Tudor sanctioning and recognition of Brehon law has occurred (even if only outside the pale of settlement) - compared to otl where i don’t think it ever received any sort of official recognition. it might lead to nothing obviously, but we’ll see.
The restoration of the earls of Kildare as the lords deputy of Ireland is also fun to see given that the great earl and his son had essentially acted as high kings of Ireland on the behalf of England for almost half a century- now they’re being invested as guarantors of the perpetual peace and further cementing their loyalty to the crown while also growing their own power in Ireland. They represent the key possibility for Irish culture to flourish under English rule- now that the English have acknowledged that Brehon law has some legitimate basis outside the english march, it’s up to a second great earl of Kildare to promote the idea that the crown should take control of the training and appointments of the brehons and force the Gaelic chiefs to submit their disputes to brehon judgement rather than feud. The main things that made the English feel their only option was plantation was brehon inability to fulfil their function of regulating the chiefs impositions on their tenants and the lack of death penalty- the solution that prevents plantation is therefore an empowerment of the brehons and imposition of death penalty instead of eraic into brehon law.
If plantations do continue though, perhaps they take an ecclesiastical counter reformation tenor- the Irish were often seen as essentially old world native Americans in the 16th century, so maybe instead of private plantations, the crown encourages Jesuit/other missionary orders to remodel irish society in reductions under their control- especially with regards to combatting clerical and secular concubinage and regulating divorce.
As for Gaelic, I don't see the Scottish royal court taking any interest in Gaelic. Scots has already become the mainstay of the Scottish court and is becoming a literary language, too. I could see the governor's of Ireland taking interest in it, but it will also depend on who exactly is governing there. Does Mary maintain the Anglo-Irish Earls (or Irishmen) in the office of Lord-Lieutenant, or does she try and mix it up by appointing Englishmen? At this point it's clear that she'd prefer to use the Old English Earls to govern for her, but she expects them to obey the mission she's set forth, which does have a rather civilizing tone. In that case, supporting Gaelic poets might be seen as backwards; there was already the issue of the Old English / Norman lords in Ireland going native so to speak. If it were up to the Queen, she'd like to bring them closer to England... hence Ormond's children being sent to England.
I don't want things to get too mixed up: there's been no official sanction given to Brehon Law, but rather a desire to create a single unified law code for the whole of Ireland, which remains divided between the Gaelic Clans and Brehon Law, and the Pale and English areas using Irish March Law (which is much more lenient than English law). One big issue with Henry VIII's policy was that he attempted to give the Gaelic lords some buy in by giving them earldoms and titles, but these titles typically followed English law and primogeniture, while the traditional lands and titles would follow Brehon law which allowed for tanistry and gavelkind succession. Mary and John would like to see a single unified law code that melds both law codes (as well as English law) and spread across the whole of Ireland. This is still likely to cause grumblings amongst the Gaelic Clans.
Kildare being appointed to his position is definitely interesting. Mary would prefer to work with the Anglo-Irish Earls if she can. They're the closest thing she has within Ireland that can effectively push forth her policy at this time. Obviously the laws caused a lot of issues: not just Brehon law in the Gaelic territories, but Irish March Law, too, as mentioned above. For instance, Irish March law allowed for most felonies to be dealt with through fines, rather than the death penalty. It also permitted the Anglo-Irish to negotiate with Gaelic cattle rustlers, as English authority was too weak to deal with it. The first important step is for the Dublin administration to extend it's authority outside the minor areas where it's influence has been limited. If it can secure control over large swaths of Ireland, it will be in a position to offer security and enforce the laws. At this point, any new law code is a twinkle in the queen's eye... but a hope for the future.
I can definitely see the idea of Jesuit / Franciscan / Dominican or whatever else reductions in Ireland. The Irish monasteries remain untouched, so there is a chance to use the religious orders to reform religious life in Ireland... especially given that laws already govern that only Englishmen can hold Irish benefices, so it adds to the civilizing mission, so to speak.