Anne, Countess of Northumberland

Due to them capitalizing on the scandal it caused within the family in The Other Boleyn Girl movie, it should be known to most that Anne Boleyn enthralled Henry Percy, 6th Earl of Northumberland (although in the movie they go so far as marriage, apparently they were only pre-contracted).

Naturally, both Wolsey and the 5th Earl were furious (albeit for different reasons, Wolsey because he intended Anne to marry the Earl of Ormonde, and the 5th Earl because she was the daughter of a mere knight). Needless to say, if the marriage had been confirmed and solemnized, there is no chance for a Virgin Queen of England, but the question to my mind is, what would have happened if Anne was out of Henry VIII's way as far as possible marriage material is concerned? And how might England turn out? Does he still break with Rome? And what of the Percys? Disfavoured? Imprisoned for treason?

Thoughts and ideas much appreciated.
 
Henry VIII is still going to be desperate for a son and heir to carry on the Tudor dynasty so you're probably still going to see him trying to push for a divorce/annulment though presumably with a different woman lined up to replace Catherine.
 
If Anne Boleyn marries the Earl of Northumberland before any engagement between her and the King actually happens, I see no reason through which her and her husband would be disfavoured. Probably the Earl's father would disinherit him and give the rights to the earldom to a younger sibling of Henry Percy, but I doubt that serious imprisionments/beheadings or tragic outcomes as these would happen.

About the King, well, probably he would still be desperate wanting to get rid of Catherine of Aragon. The divorce and the break with Rome would be inevitable. Even if he successfully annuled his marriage by Catholic means, the Habsburgs and the Avises (Catherine's nephews through Joanna the Mad and Mary of Aragon) would take it as an offense and refuse to replace Catherine with, for instance, Eleanor of Austria, one of the proposed brides. A diplomatic break with southern Europe would happen, and Henry would still have to look for brides in northern Germany, Scandinavia or amongst local nobility.
 
Before Henry VIII decided to marry his brother's widow Catherine, emperor Maximilian had offered Eleanor as a potential bride to Henry.
 
If Anne Boleyn marries the Earl of Northumberland before any engagement between her and the King actually happens, I see no reason through which her and her husband would be disfavoured. Probably the Earl's father would disinherit him and give the rights to the earldom to a younger sibling of Henry Percy, but I doubt that serious imprisionments/beheadings or tragic outcomes as these would happen.

Henry Percy couldn't be disinherited by his father, the Earldom like all English titles descended via strict male primogeniture and almost all the Perchy lands were entailed* to it, the most his father could do would be to cut him out of his cash assets and moveables.


*meaning they were the property of the Earldom rather than the Earl, sort of like a modern trust.
 
Anne Boleyn was still the niece of the Duke of Norfolk and daughter of the would-be Earl of Ormonde, co-heir to the Wool Earl's rich inheritance....not too shameful a match really.
 
I read somewhere that if Charlotte or Louise de Valois had survived Henry considered them for Fitzroy. If they had, might Henry have married one himself rather?

What might Anne's future as Countess of Northumberland look like? No beheading for one, and no stress-induced miscarriages for another. I saw a TL where she (as CoN) schemes to get a daughter of hers to marry the second son of Henry VIII by Katherine of Aragon.
 
I read somewhere that if Charlotte or Louise de Valois had survived Henry considered them for Fitzroy. If they had, might Henry have married one himself rather?

What might Anne's future as Countess of Northumberland look like? No beheading for one, and no stress-induced miscarriages for another. I saw a TL where she (as CoN) schemes to get a daughter of hers to marry the second son of Henry VIII by Katherine of Aragon.

Yeah Henry may have considered them for his bastard, but Francois I never would. A royal French Princess, descendent of saints marrying a lowborn bastard of a relatively new dynasty? There would be a better chance of the King of Spain converting to Judaism. Anyway, it depends. Francois I was looking for an alliance with England around the time of Henry's marriage to Anne Boleyn (Henry and Anne's visit to France shortly before their marriage comes to mind) so theoretically I can't see any reason why the French wouldn't consider a marriage with the English King. However, if everything else happens the same (Henry treating Catherine of Aragon like shit, bastardizing Mary, executing anyone who disagrees with him and declaring himself head of the Anglican Church) then Francois might have second thoughts. After all, its one thing to ally yourself with a heretic, its a whole nother thing to marry your daughter to one (especially a despotic one like Henry).
 
Yeah Henry may have considered them for his bastard, but Francois I never would. A royal French Princess, descendent of saints marrying a lowborn bastard of a relatively new dynasty? There would be a better chance of the King of Spain converting to Judaism. Anyway, it depends. Francois I was looking for an alliance with England around the time of Henry's marriage to Anne Boleyn (Henry and Anne's visit to France shortly before their marriage comes to mind) so theoretically I can't see any reason why the French wouldn't consider a marriage with the English King. However, if everything else happens the same (Henry treating Catherine of Aragon like shit, bastardizing Mary, executing anyone who disagrees with him and declaring himself head of the Anglican Church) then Francois might have second thoughts. After all, its one thing to ally yourself with a heretic, its a whole nother thing to marry your daughter to one (especially a despotic one like Henry).

I somehow think that the only foreign marriage partner considered for Fitzroy who might have actually worked out was Caterina de Medici (yes, the queen of France). Since, I'm pretty sure that the Habsburg-Aviz bloc is gonna have the same issues as François for the candidates that Henry toyed with for him - Maria, Lady of Viseu; Christina of Denmark and Elisabeth of Austria.

And OTL there were rumors that due to the blackening of her heart (probably caused by a cancer or other disease) Anne/Henry had poisoned Catherine, what's to stop somebody else taking the same route at an earlier date to rid Henry of his no-longer bleeding (menstruating) queen? Granted Henry will probably be in as deep a funk (esp. if he's kept in the dark about the queen being poisoned) as he was when Jane Seymour died, since he really loved Katherine (reportedly), but also the pressing need to leave a male heir is greater so he'll marry sooner than later.

And ooc, wasn't Katherine ill sometime in the 1520s? I know her health was undermined by her religious observances (fasting, kneeling on cold floors etc), and also the stress of what was to be done with her following Arthur's death. It might be easier to just let her die in such a manner (less diplomatic shit hitting the proverbial fan).

Say Katherine dies around 1525, (pre-Great Matter), who might Henry's new queen be? Who might be a replacement Anne? And will she necessarily be a foreign royal or a domestic match?
 
I think the best time for KoA to die would be before Henry even CONSIDERED divorce or annulment. To remove her by natural means also means that Bloody Mary's relationship with her dad and new stepmother will be as different as Boleyn vs Seymour. Also, it makes less of diplomatic mess when looking for a new queen.

If we're going for foreign princess what about Isabella Jagiellon, OTL Queen of Hungary and Princess of Transylvania? Or perhaps her older half-sister Jadwyga, OTL Electress of Brandenburg?

But, if we're moving in the usual boring Habsburg-France shuffle, then Beatriz of Portugal, Catalina of Castile, Renée/Charlotte/Louise de France, Marie de Guise, Marie de Bourbon, a Navarrese infanta (would be interesting) or Frederik II of Denmark's daughter.

Just for genetic variety I like Poland or Navarre, maybe Renée and then England can push claims to the crown of Bretagne.
 
Top