Anne Boleyn's Brood

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Kynan, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    James Hamilton (1538)

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    James Stewart, heir to the Scottish Throne (1538)

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    Queen Dowager Maraget of Scotland with one of her sons -not contemperary- (1640)
     
  2. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    Discussion topic: Who is the most likely marriage partners in this timeline?


    My ideas at this point are:

    Tudor Children:


    Lady Mary Tudor : William of Jülich-Cleves-Berge


    Princess Elizabeth Tudor : Charles Valois, Duke of Angoulême or Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy or Phillip of Spain


    Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales : Maria of Austria or Joanna of Austria


    Princess Anne Tudor : Prince Ferdinand of Austria


    Princess Margaret Tudor : João Manuel, Prince of Portugal


    Possible other son : Maria of Portugal


    Possible other daughter : Infante Edward, 5th Duke of Guimarães or Thomas Howard


    Possible other daughter : Henry Brandon, 2nd Duke of Suffolk



    Possible other son : Barbara of Austria



    Others:


    Henry VIII (after Anne Boleyn, if she dies) : Jeanne d'Albret or Anne of Cleves


    Jane Seymour : Thomas Clere


    James Hamilton : Lady Margaret Erskine
     
  3. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    May 26, 2009
    Marrying Jeanne d'Albret to Henry VIII or his sons means gaining back Gascony..
     
  4. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    And what's wrong with that?
     
  5. Blurgle Off stalking Anne Boleyn

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    Winnipeg
    It would have taken at least two days for the news of Catherine's death to reach the Court. And another day or two to reach the ears of Mary, who was not at Court during this time OTL (and I doubt would have been at Court even if Anne had a son). In fact, Mary was all but kept captive at this point in her life, and wouldn't have been able to reach Court.
     
  6. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    I'll change that then :) Thank you
     
  7. kasumigenx Well-Known Member

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    Continued War with France because of Gascony just like before.
     
  8. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    Ok then, I think I may go with Anne of Cleves, if I do kill Anne off in the timeline. :)
     
  9. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
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    Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales with the Princesses Anne and Margaret Tudor, Unknown (1538)

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    Quene Anne Bullen in Mourning, minature bu Hans Holbein the Younger (1538)

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    Sketch of Prince Robert Stewart of Scotland (1538)

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    Unknown Lady, Commonly Identified as Queen Dowager Margaret Erskine (1538)
     
  10. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Portrait of Princess Margaret Tudor (1538)

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    Jane Seymour while pregnant (1538)

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    Last portrait and minature of Lady Mary Tudor in England (1538)
     
  11. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    1538: The year opened with a new shock. In mid-January, Scotland got another big shock as, during childbirth James Hamilton’s wife died, along with the female child. But that wasn’t the shocking part. No, what was shocking was his actions after. Within a week of hearing she was dead he had secretly married the Queen Dowager Margaret Erskine, announcing the union mere days after his wife’s funeral. After what had been a somewhat stable few months in Scotland while the government had been hammering out the details of the succession, this lead to a huge panic. There was talks of rebellions in the some areas, with certain nobles clearly jealous of James Hamilton’s success. To try and offset the anger at his actions, Hamilton released a statement (lost in the Great Fire of 1739) that said that he had done this to help stabilise Scotland, and to give the succession more focus. It also gave the information that he had adopted the boys (the younger had been named Robert) and that he would not be forcing himself as king, but merely regnant for the time being. This went against the previous truce in many ways, but it was worded confusingly enough so that most nobles spent the next few weeks decoding the statement so they could understand how mad to get.

    In the wake of this though, who came as an opponent but Matthew Stewart, 4th Earl of Lennox. He felt that he had a strong claim to the throne and the popularity to raise an army that would lead him right to it. At this time, he saw a magnificent opportunity to take what he saw as an easy win and so set on a march; right to the crown. When he got there though, he saw an army in a great position, with twice as many soldiers and James Hamilton dressed in full armour, ready for battle. It turned out that he had had a spy in Stewart’s household, who had relayed the information to Hamilton and given him time to get ready for the encounter. So, on this March morning, Mathew Stewart charged at James Hamilton and very quickly lost. Luckily, he was killed in battle, because he was to have faced severe humiliation if he had lived. As punishment though, Mathew Stewart’s family had to hand over much of their lands to the crown and pay a yearly pension to it for a period of ten years.

    On this first win, it looked like James Hamilton would make a good ruler/regnant for the time being, and the country again settled down for the next few months, while Hamilton slowly gained respect and popularity amongst the nobles, most notably Margaret Tudor, who actively promoted the man to her brother, Henry VIII.

    In England, the first part of the year went as usual. George Boleyn’s wife, Jane Parker died during the birth of their first child (the child died to). Henry continued to dally with Jane Seymour, who discovered she was pregnant later in the year and was quickly married to the Thomas Clere, a young man who was related to the Queen. This was an unhappy marriage, which would never produce any children and would also involve the poet being sent to other courts for months at a time to keep him away from his wife; whom Henry was very protective of. But with pregnancy, many thought Henry would lose interest with the woman and move on to the next mistress. But instead, he seemed to just take it as he had early in Anne’s pregnancies and just waited for a while, until he could play again.

    Queen Anne’s pregnancy proceeded as normal, with plenty of apples and plenty of pride. There was a wonder of the gender of the child, or if it would even be just one. She moved to the royal birthing chambers in February and returned in April with a healthy prince and a dead princess. The court rejoiced for the young prince, but Anne went in a period of mourning for her baby girl (who had lived long enough to be held but only that long) in which she did not leave her room for over a month. But when she came out, she heard buzzing over the pregnancy of Jane Seymour, and in her pain over her baby girl, refused the woman permission to go to the christening.

    The christening was a smaller event than that of Princess Margaret, due to lack of money as it was being spent on building schools at the time. But it was still a grand show, with the announcement that the boy would be named Edward and that he would receive not only the Dukedom of York, but also several other titles that were generally left out. The boy was commented to looked very much like his father, with his mother’s darker hair, but it lightened to a reddish brown over time.

    The year also continued the marriage negotiations between Mary Tudor and William of Jülich-Cleves-Berge, which finally ended in late July; with treaties for every possibility being signed everywhere and the dowry completely decided on. Mary was given until Christmas, after which she would leave with her attendants, dowry and other items to go marry the young heir. Among her attendants was the young Catherine Howard, a relative of the Queen who had only recently joined the court but had made a splash with her flirty ways and pretty looks. She would become notorious later among the courts of the world for her actions during and after the marriage.

    Next came the various betrothals that were announced, at least for this year. At this point, there was an attempt to weave the the royal families together in a series of truces that would benefit everyone, but that would be impossible. But here is what we they came up with:

    Lady Mary Tudor : William of Jülich-Cleves-Berge



    Princess Elizabeth Tudor : Charles Valois, Duke of Angoulême



    Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales : Maria of Austria



    Princess Anne Tudor : Prince Ferdinand of Austria



    Princess Margaret Tudor : João Manuel, Prince of Portugal



    Prince Edward Tudor: Maria of Portugal



    George Boleyn, 2nd Viscount Rochford : Lady Margaret Douglas



    Francis III of Brittany (death butterflied away) : Christina of Denmark



    Louis III de La Trémoille : Madeleine of Valois



    Francis of Lorraine: Margaret of France


    Philip of Spain : Elisabeth of Brunswick-Calenberg



    Prince James Stewart of Scotland : Catherine of Austria



    Prince Robert Stewart of Scotland : Anna Marie of Brunswick-Lüneburg



    Archduchess Maria of Austria : Maximilian; Heir to Bohemia, Germany, Hungary and Croatia



    In the wake of this, there was a series of treaties that were attempting to all parties to their positions while still giving other options a chance (one of the many contradictions that made it into the treaties). The big winner in all of this though was Henry VIII, as through his proposed marriages he would procure large area of land in France and a huge amount of money from the various other marriages. Other winners seemed to be the Scottish princes, who weren’t even properly recognised by certain areas yet had managed to get good brides with big dowries.

    In July, Henry’s mistress Jane Seymour left the court. Though she was only gone for three months, this was a time where Henry seemed very unhappy and quite irritable. He spent most of his time with the ‘money people’ and Thomas Boleyn, working out ways to earn more money while not upsetting Anne, who was on a quest to have a school in every town in England and Ireland. They looked at the taxes, the expenses and other such things, and came up with nothing.

    Finally, in October, Jane returned with her baby girl. Henry reacted much the same as he did with all of his children, he had a spurt of love and kindness then ignored her for the rest of the time. When asked what she would name her daughter Jane supposedly was stumped, until the Queen came and offered a suggestion, Mary. The reason given was that the Lady Mary Tudor was leaving and that could be a nice little surprise, but there was talk that the name ‘Mary’ was one that Anne wanted to be linked with illegitimacy, though this was only a rumour.

    The year ended with the leaving of Mary Tudor to Cleves, where she would be meeting her soon to be husband. The leaving was an outwardly emotional and extravagant affair, as Henry had not seen any of his children off to be married yet. Anne meanwhile, had plead a headache and missed it, closing the door on the rocky relationship between her and Mary.
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  12. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    Any ideas on what will happen next?
     
  13. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
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    Catherine Howard (1539)

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    Princess Madeleine Valois (1539)

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    Christina of Denmark (1539)

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    Anne Boleyn (1539)
     
  14. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
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    Mary Tudor (1539)

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    Henry VIII (1539)

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    Edward, Duke of York (1542)

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    Margaret Douglas (1539)

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    Guess who!
     
  15. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    Ok, Elizabeth Tudor has two choices as to husbands at the moment. Either Emmanuel Philibert, Duke of Savoy or Phillip of Spain (Phillip II of Spain). Which do you think I should go with? I really need help with this decision! :confused:
     
  16. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
    1539: Starting off the year was Mary Tudor’s arrival in Cleves and the first meeting with her new husband. Though both had heard a lot about eachother, this was the first time they had met. Of course he had seen her portrait and she had seen sketches, but the first impression would be vital to a happy marriage (well, that and children). But something happened, that would become infamous among historians and regular people alike. While she prepared herself to meet him (choosing a nice dress, scents ect.) she sent out one of her attendants, Catherine Howard, to keep him entertained in the interim. But, when she walked into the room to meet him, she was greeted by the sight of them in an… akward situation. This set off the wrong tone to the marriage, but her reaction probably didn’t help. She apparantly screamed at them, broke an expensive vase and stormed back to her rooms to cry for an hour. When she did finally come out, William was apolegetic but Mary was icy. But Catherine, well she apparantly convinced Mary that he had seduced her, a story that nobody believed later but was good enough for Mary.

    The wedding was a extravagent, if gaudy affair. In preparation for it a new churched had been built, complete with raised isle and marble statues everywhere. There was gold embroidery everywhere, the attendants wore dark red (English Style) dresses while Mary wore a deep purple (English Style) dress with white, red and gold embroidery. Days the ceremony Mary had questioned the Duke as to many things, and had even managed to get a Catholic wedding rather than a Protestant to take place. During the ceremony though, many noted the cold and aloof way Mary interacted with her husband. But, when the sheets were checked to see if they had consumated the marriage, it was obvious that she knew her duty, even if she didn’t like her husband.

    Over in Scotland, things were getting a little less unstable than previously thought possible. With a strong leader and two heirs, the succession (strange as it was) was secure. Also, the details as to how the royal family worked was finally worked out. Hamilton was now considered King of Scotland, to the detrament of many other nobles, but after what happened to Mathew Stewart and family, it was quitely put aside, at least for now. The boys were now considered his childresn and as such took his name. This caused the biggest stir amongst the Stewarts, as this has a huge blow to there sense of honour. But for now, the need for a rest from all the infighting and skirmishes outweighed the need to preserve honour (a first for Scotland). The year also brought a new development as Queen Dowager, now Queen Margaret announced that she was pregnant.

    In England, there wasa huge scandal amongst the court that no one cared about. It was pointed out by several courtiers that Jane Seymour was pregnant for a second time, while her husband had not been at court for 6 months. Also the previous child, Mary, was pretty much a small, female verson of Henry with more feminine features. From her hair colour to her eye colour, it seemed the ony similarities to her mother was her pale skin and, more obvious later, her temperant.

    During all this, Queen Anne sent much of her time trying to push Henry towards another mistress. She did not want an equiviant of Diane de Poitiers messing up her life. She had publicly said many times that she felt extremely sorry for Catherine de Medici over that woman and didn’t want that happening to her. But she couldn’t really do anything but keep Jane close and try to get Henry to see how boring the tart really was.

    Then, in June, Anne announced a new pregnancy. There was the usual gifts and celebrations, but one event occurred that tied Anne to Jane together in a more personal way then before. On the night of a celebration ball for her pregnancy, Jane Seymour had been talking to the King. At this point she was obviously pregnant, but still 4 months away from going into labour. Anne, instantly jealous and angry that she was eing ignored by the King, went over and started to berate him over his treatment of her. One person watching recounted the incident to George Boleyn, who wrote down the dialogue as he kne it:

    “…after all I have done, my Lorde? What do you let this boring tart hang around, when I have never done anything of the like to you?”

    The incident, in which Anne spent a while on her husband, eventually turned to Jane. But, instead of going into a huge reprimand to the girl, she simply told her that her services were no longer needed as a Lady in Waiting and to leave the court as soon as possible.

    This caused quite a stir amongst the courtiers, who sought information on what, where, when and why. They got every detail though, when an anonymous person (now thought to have been either Anne herself or her brother George) gave out fliers the next week, with every element stated and a very obvious bias towards Anne as the wronged wife. But, instead of sympathy, many older nobles were quick to point out the similarities to her situation and Catherine of Aragon’s.

    Over in France, there was an urgency get the dauphin married as quickly as possible. Francis was getting older, Henry Valois wasn’t producing any heirs with his wife, Charles would be able to get actually married until 1546 at the earliest and Eleanor wasn’t producing any heirs either. This was really the first quiet period in the terms of children in a while and the King didn’t like it. So, in a rush not seen before from France, the betrothal between Francis and Christina of Denmark was pushed forward as quickly as possible, with treaties being more vague than usual and the dowry actually downsized by a few estates (only 2, but that was still a lot). But it all paid off when, in April, Christina of Denmark left for France. When she arrived, the wedding preparations were already weeks through. She was only given three days to settle, then the wedding took place. She wore a gown that was previously Queen Eleanor’s, a tiara that was owned by Catherine de Medici and all the other jewellery worn was that of the dead Queen Claude. Still, it as a lavish affair and Christina was supposedly charmed by the quite, bookish charm of her new husband.


    But she was not there for fun, she was there to get pregnant. And that she did. Within three months of marriage she said she was feeling sick and had an odd craving for strawberries and fish. This was seen as a sign that she was pregnant and it turned out to be correct. In foresight, it seems that she got pregnant withing a few weeks of marriage, with the baby coming exactly ten months after the wedding. But what was the gender, well that did occur this year, did it?

    Back in Cleves, although Mary did not like her husband, they regulary met in their bedchambers and as such, she got pregnant fairly quickly. By March, it was apparent that she was pregnant, with odd cravings and morning sickness. But it ended tragicly when, in late May she miscarried. Worse still, the doctors said that the child was a deformed male. The clincher though was that Catherine Howard come out as pregnant, and it was obvious to the court that it was William’s, as that was who she was always with. At this point Mary had figured out that Catherine had lied to her and as such had tried to send her back to England. But when she tried, her husband had outright refused. Instead, Catherine had been moved into adjoining rooms to William’s. This began a strong relationship that would last a lifetime.

    In England, a request came in from France that surprised the royal family. They asked if there was any noblewomen that were acceptable to marry Charles Valois in the place of Elizabeth Tudor, as they felt that the wait would be too long and they wished for Charles to start producing heirs. When this was announced in the court, there was a hush to see how Henry would react. Henry VIII was slowly becoming unstable, with mood swings that could only be settled by Jane Seymour or Princess Anne. But instead of the rush of anger and bile they expected, he instead quickly offered his niece Margaret Douglas, who was meant to have married George Boleyn but had voiced her hesitations on ‘marrying beneath her station’. An agreement came from this and Margaret had a miniature done to send to France, along with Henry bestowing a series of titles and lands onto her to make her a better prospect to the French. It would not be until the next year until they heard back on the subject.

    In the wake of the lose of this alliance, two suitors came to the forfront. While Phillip of Spain was already betrothed the ambassadors made it clear that he was willing (reality, Charles V was willing) to break off the engagement to make this one. The other suitor was Emmanuel Philibert, who was set to inherit the Dukedom of Savoy and was also unattached at this time. Both seemed eager (remember, ambitious fathers) and both were extremely elligable. Henry decided that he would wait until the year to come to say who would be the lucky guy.

    The year ended with Queen Anne leaving for her birthing chambers aroun the same time as Christina of Denmark and Queen Margaret of Scotland (the title was generally used at this point). In a casual seeming remark to an ambassador, Henry remarked that if the genders of any of the the children were opposite, then they should become betrothed. And with that, 1539 ended.
     
  17. zert Casual Reader, Interested Follower

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2010
    I am appreciating the updates and the intermingled families andbkids. Now lets just hope that in all the confusion two siblings do not marry.;)
     
  18. Kynan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    I hope that too! God though, the genetic mutant would probably be quite entertaining.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  19. Kynan Well-Known Member

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    Oct 7, 2013
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    Catherine of France (1540)

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    Elizabeth of Scotland (1557)

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    Francis of France (1545)

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    Elizabeth of England, Queen of Scotland (1550)

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    Marie-Anne of France (1548)

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    James Hamilton, King of Scotland

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    Elizabeth of England, Queen Dowager of Scotland (1561)
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  20. Kynan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
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    Edward, Duke of York (1539)

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    Edmund Tudor (1542)

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    Edward Tudor (1553)

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    Mary Seymour (1556)

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    Bridget Tudor (1558)

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    Margaret Tudor (1554)


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    Cecily Tudor (1554)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2013