AngloSaxon England gets annexed by France

How is it possible for France itself not their vassal the normans to have annexed or inherited and united to France under the Capetian dynasty...
 
What if OTL's Henry III were to die before his father? I seem to remember that Louis (son of Philippe II Augustus of France) was in the process of being chosen by the barons to replace King John in 1216. Of course Louis would have to live longer (he died in 1226).
 
Just have King John live a year longer. If he hadn't died when he did the barons would have crowned that French prince King Louis.

The emergence of France as a major European power in medieval times was due to Phillip Augustus successful struggles with Henry II, Richard the Lionheart and John Lackland. Before this date the title King of France was merely nominal, Phillip's predecessors were far too busy trying yo maintain their position in France to be interested in foreign adventures.

The only possible way is to have the French royal family perform a similar role to that of the Norman court in the period 1000-45 where a female member of the family marries the king of England. Then the surviving heirs of the native dynasty can take refuge there and ultimately the events of 1066 can take place only with a French rather than Norman emphasis.
 
archaeogeek said:
So Louis I of England :D
There you have your claim :cool:

There was once a now discontinued Timeline on the possibility of Louis VIII of France becoming Louis I of England : it was called Clavis Angliae.

RyuDrago said:
I always thought about a reversal hundred years war...
Yay for a English Jeanne'd Arc :p

On both of the quotes : I think that by Anglo-Saxon England, he means the one preceeding Norman Conquests, thus before William the Conqueror (and later the Plantagenêts). At least, that is how I understood the first post.

As for the Anglo-French Union where France dominates scenarios, there are at least three scenarios I see, the first one being the case were Louis VIII of France successfully claims the crown of England.

The other two however have a Renaissance POD and are hard to realize because of Religious Tensions and Anglo-French enemity post HYW.

- The First one is Francis II of France living longer and having a son with Mary Stuart (she was his wife for a short while). The boy would then inherit France from his father, Scotland from his mother and be Elizabeth I of England's heir provided she remains "The Virgin Queen".

-The second one would be Elizabeth marrying to a French prince and giving birth to a son. Catherine de Medicis used pro-English policies to secure an alliance against the Hapsburgs (they were at their highest) and she tried to arrange a marriage between Elisabeth and a french prince so that the Alliance would be stronger. Candidates were hers sons Henri of Anjou (later Henri III of France) and Françis of Alençon (later Duke of Anjou) and the Bourbon cousin Henri of Navarra (later Henri IV).
 
How is it possible for France itself not their vassal the normans to have annexed or inherited and united to France under the Capetian dynasty...

I'm not sure how to do it under the Capetian Dynasty. But it might be possible under the Carolingians. King Charles III the Simple married Eadgifu, daughter of King Edward the Elder of England. While Charles was being held hostage by his enemies, Eadgifu and their heir, the future king Louis IV, lived under the protection of Eadgifu's brother, King Athelstan (Louis was to be known as Louis d'Outremer as a result of this period of exile at the Anglo-Saxon court). Louis would later rule in France from 936-954.

If some disaster befell the English royal house...say some battle against the Vikings which goes horribly wrong and leads to the king and the obvious heirs being wiped out...you could have Louis IV possibly assert a claim to the English throne.
 
Of course, when it comes to the Hundred Years War of any of the earlier conflicts, there's also the possibility of having England pull off a win. By all indications, within a generation or two the combined kingdom would be thoroughly French-dominated.

However, it is a lot more difficult to pull off with Anglo-Saxon England. Perhaps have 1066 be horrendously indecisive, so that all three major factions get embroiled in a long three-way conflict (with the classic dynamic where whenever one faction starts doing too well the other two ally against it). Once Harold, Harald, and William are all nicely weakened, the French crown sees an opportunity and takes it.
 
There was once a now discontinued Timeline on the possibility of Louis VIII of France becoming Louis I of England : it was called Clavis Angliae.



On both of the quotes : I think that by Anglo-Saxon England, he means the one preceeding Norman Conquests, thus before William the Conqueror (and later the Plantagenêts). At least, that is how I understood the first post.

As for the Anglo-French Union where France dominates scenarios, there are at least three scenarios I see, the first one being the case were Louis VIII of France successfully claims the crown of England.

The other two however have a Renaissance POD and are hard to realize because of Religious Tensions and Anglo-French enemity post HYW.

- The First one is Francis II of France living longer and having a son with Mary Stuart (she was his wife for a short while). The boy would then inherit France from his father, Scotland from his mother and be Elizabeth I of England's heir provided she remains "The Virgin Queen".

-The second one would be Elizabeth marrying to a French prince and giving birth to a son. Catherine de Medicis used pro-English policies to secure an alliance against the Hapsburgs (they were at their highest) and she tried to arrange a marriage between Elisabeth and a french prince so that the Alliance would be stronger. Candidates were hers sons Henri of Anjou (later Henri III of France) and Françis of Alençon (later Duke of Anjou) and the Bourbon cousin Henri of Navarra (later Henri IV).

The later POD's could produce a Bourbon England as well..
 
What if OTL's Henry III were to die before his father? I seem to remember that Louis (son of Philippe II Augustus of France) was in the process of being chosen by the barons to replace King John in 1216. Of course Louis would have to live longer (he died in 1226).

Just have King John live a year longer. If he hadn't died when he did the barons would have crowned that French prince King Louis.

The emergence of France as a major European power in medieval times was due to Phillip Augustus successful struggles with Henry II, Richard the Lionheart and John Lackland. Before this date the title King of France was merely nominal, Phillip's predecessors were far too busy trying yo maintain their position in France to be interested in foreign adventures.

The only possible way is to have the French royal family perform a similar role to that of the Norman court in the period 1000-45 where a female member of the family marries the king of England. Then the surviving heirs of the native dynasty can take refuge there and ultimately the events of 1066 can take place only with a French rather than Norman emphasis.

So Louis I of England :D
There you have your claim :cool:

I always thought about a reversal hundred years war...
Yay for a English Jeanne'd Arc :p

There was once a now discontinued Timeline on the possibility of Louis VIII of France becoming Louis I of England : it was called Clavis Angliae....

As for the Anglo-French Union where France dominates scenarios, there are at least three scenarios I see, the first one being the case were Louis VIII of France successfully claims the crown of England.

The other two however have a Renaissance POD and are hard to realize because of Religious Tensions and Anglo-French enemity post HYW.

- The First one is Francis II of France living longer and having a son with Mary Stuart (she was his wife for a short while). The boy would then inherit France from his father, Scotland from his mother and be Elizabeth I of England's heir provided she remains "The Virgin Queen".

-The second one would be Elizabeth marrying to a French prince and giving birth to a son. Catherine de Medicis used pro-English policies to secure an alliance against the Hapsburgs (they were at their highest) and she tried to arrange a marriage between Elisabeth and a french prince so that the Alliance would be stronger. Candidates were hers sons Henri of Anjou (later Henri III of France) and Françis of Alençon (later Duke of Anjou) and the Bourbon cousin Henri of Navarra (later Henri IV).

Of course, when it comes to the Hundred Years War of any of the earlier conflicts, there's also the possibility of having England pull off a win. By all indications, within a generation or two the combined kingdom would be thoroughly French-dominated.

The later POD's could produce a Bourbon England as well..

All of this is non-germaine to the stated POD, which is that ANGLO-SAXON England...i.e. England prior to 1066...is annexed by France.

However, it is a lot more difficult to pull off with Anglo-Saxon England. Perhaps have 1066 be horrendously indecisive, so that all three major factions get embroiled in a long three-way conflict (with the classic dynamic where whenever one faction starts doing too well the other two ally against it). Once Harold, Harald, and William are all nicely weakened, the French crown sees an opportunity and takes it.

Difficult, but not impossible. I also offered a POD in the mid-900s A.D. See post #8.
 
IMHO, the best way to do this is to have the House of Normandy take over England as OTL...and then have either them or the Plantagenets inherit the French throne. England comes into personal union with the French crown-I'm sure you could do it if you fiddled around with marraiges and inheritances.
 
IMHO, the best way to do this is to have the House of Normandy take over England as OTL...and then have either them or the Plantagenets inherit the French throne. England comes into personal union with the French crown-I'm sure you could do it if you fiddled around with marraiges and inheritances.

Again, the OP states that it is Anglo-Saxon England...which would mean England BEFORE 1066...which is to be annexed by France. A post-Norman POD does not meet the requirements of the OP.
 
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