Anglo-US War 1920s ?

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Even after WWI the USN apparently had plans to wage war against Britain during the 1920s. Could anybody design a POD which enables such a conflict to occur, and what'd be the course and consequences ?
 
Melvin Loh said:
Even after WWI the USN apparently had plans to wage war against Britain during the 1920s. Could anybody design a POD which enables such a conflict to occur, and what'd be the course and consequences ?

I suppose you could tie Britain and Japan closer, but I am not sure what would bring that about considering they were drifting apart

Grey Wolf
 

Redbeard

Banned
Plans and plans

Melvin Loh said:
Even after WWI the USN apparently had plans to wage war against Britain during the 1920s. Could anybody design a POD which enables such a conflict to occur, and what'd be the course and consequences ?

It is true that the US Navy had plans for what to do in case of a war with UK (Plan Red), but that wasn't the same as USA planned to go to war with UK. All in all it will be difficult to find a plausible scenario for a war between USA and UK in the 1920's (or anytime since then).

But if we start by imagining a US government being a degree or two more anti-British in it's rhetoric (not that impossible to imagine) then we have a starting point more resembling the relations between UK and Germany at the start of 20th century – i.e. old allies and relatives, but the junior partner feeling limited by the senior and the senior not capable of overlooking the increasingly hostile attitude of the junior – combined with an aggressive naval construction program. Could we imagine British capital (and no-payments on war-debt) being blamed for all the problems felt by the homecoming soldiers in USA? There after all was extensive labor unrest in the post war years in USA. A more outspoken animosity will probably also have the Anglo-Japanese alliance from WWI (de facto from Russo-Japanese war) survive longer, which again will be a huge provocation to the USA.

Under such conditions the negotiations about naval disarmament at Washington in 1921-22 could very well fail in making an agreement, and resulting in a naval race and eventually a war. If such a war comes within say 10 years the British will have a huge advantage in their superior fleet, not only in numbers but also in training and not at least balance of forces. The USN in the 1920’s will be a very unbalanced force of too many slow battleships and too few (battle)cruisers. Until naval aviation becomes a viable weapon (by 1930’s?) the USN seriously risks going blind into battle, and in the battle the USN shells will perform much like the British at Jutland, but the British have by that time issued new and very improved shells.

In the long run the almost inexhaustible resources of USA will overwhelm UK, but the question is if political will can be raised for a prolonged war against UK – I doubt it – not unless the British have started the war by some Pearl Harbor like act (which you can’t 100% exclude if the British feel really cornered – they had a naval airstrike capacity by 1920’s – don’t plan for what you think the enemy will do, but for what he can do!).

Canada will be very exposed to US land forces, but Canada is a damned big country to keep occupied, and with their naval superiority the British probably are capable of keeping a foothold on the continent at Newfoundland or Nova Scotia. An army well in Eastern Canada well away from the US border is probably easier supplied across the Atlantic than over land from USA.

The Panama Canal and any overseas US possession will probably be exposed to British expeditions, but I doubt the British will ever undertake a major campaign against the US mainland. By 1920’s the British no doubt were exhausted after WWI, but the exhaustion more was of a psychological character than a physical/economical (unlike after WWII). That first of all means that the British are not likely to initiate major conflicts, but if attacked and seriously threatened I’m not in doubt that broad public support could be created in a split-second. Much the same could be said about USA, and this makes it difficult to have one of the parts actually start this war – no matter all the conflicting interests and rhetoric. But I guess it isn’t impossible to imagine a chain of events which take the situation out of rational control. But I doubt it will be a long war.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
 
In the eventuality of war with Britain, the US had a plan for attacking Canada which was called Plan Scarlet. However, American planners were left in a lurch over the possibility that in a war with Britain what would happen if Canada declared itself neutral?
 
Couple of Thoughts

WI during WWI, the British had been 'unkind' shall we say to American Commanders in the field, and then, when the US tries to rebuild Germany, Britain resists, threatening some shipping.

Then, as was suggested, the economic difficlties experienced by the returning vets are balamed on the British.

Also Canada- Yes it is a big country, but [I have heard] something like 75% of it population lives with 15 miles of the US. Add tis to the fact that Quebec represents a pretty big share of the other piece, and it is a country relatively easy to invade and hold. Where are the dissidents going to go, the Yukon?
 
A US Brit war in that decade is difficult but possible. One way is to reach back as far as 1914-15. In OTL skilled Brit diplomacy and a bungling German foreign office pulled-pushed the US to the Allied camp. Let imagine the Germans were a bit better at the diplomatic game and the Brits made more mistakes, the result being the US remains nuetral & more connected to Germany.

Eventually the Great War ends with Germany defeated. Britain is suffering from its war debts, some of which are owed to US banks, & its general balance in trade with the US less than what the Brits might consider favorable. A faction within the British government regards the Yanks as moraly bankrupt supporters of Germany, bloodsucking war profitiers. This faction pushes through a popular policy of abbrogating a small portion of the debts to US banks which threaten to bankrupt certain UK businesses.

In retaliation the US government threatens to occupy and "liberate" the remaining British territories in the Caribbean under the pretext of the Monroe Doctrine and thinking of the Spanish American War as favorable precedent.

That should do it
 
A US Brit war in that decade is difficult but possible. One way is to reach back as far as 1914-15. In OTL skilled Brit diplomacy and a bungling German foreign office pulled-pushed the US to the Allied camp. Let imagine the Germans were a bit better at the diplomatic game and the Brits made more mistakes, the result being the US remains nuetral & more connected to Germany.

Eventually the Great War ends with Germany defeated. Britain is suffering from its war debts, some of which are owed to US banks, & its general balance in trade with the US less than what the Brits might consider favorable. A faction within the British government regards the Yanks as moraly bankrupt supporters of Germany, bloodsucking war profitiers. This faction pushes through a popular policy of abbrogating a small portion of the debts to US banks which threaten to bankrupt certain UK businesses.

In retaliation the US government threatens to occupy and "liberate" the remaining British territories in the Caribbean under the pretext of the Monroe Doctrine and thinking of the Spanish American War as favorable precedent.

That should do it

Dude, this thread is SEVEN YEARS OLD.
 
Why England

I am and Anglophile...but it has always gotten me that the UK used the largest Navy in the world to prevent American and others from trading with Germany during the war. Germany used the sub...and sometimes rather stupidly or atleast a little ahead of the times...Exclusion Zones and warning neutrals not to enter or travel on combatant ships.
Why so much anger at Germany and none at the UK? Both prevented freedom of trade/seas.
 
I am and Anglophile...but it has always gotten me that the UK used the largest Navy in the world to prevent American and others from trading with Germany during the war. Germany used the sub...and sometimes rather stupidly or atleast a little ahead of the times...Exclusion Zones and warning neutrals not to enter or travel on combatant ships.
Why so much anger at Germany and none at the UK? Both prevented freedom of trade/seas.

Because Wilson wanted the British to win.

Also Britian was more valuable to the USA than Germany and also had a very skillfull anti German propaganda campaign.
 
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